04/07/1983 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
SUBJECT TO APPROVAL
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
April 7, 1983
The regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called
to order by Chairman Martin. Members present were Alt, Fedde, Masin, Martin,
Carroll, Kubik, and McNeely. Absent were members Thurston, Schumaker, and
Gustafson. Also present were Ken Vraa, Parks and Recreation Director and
Administrative Intern, Liz Witt. There were other visitors present for
particular items on the agenda.
AGENDA
There were no changes or additions to the April 7 agenda. On a motion by
Masin, seconded by Carroll, the agenda was approved.
MINUTES
There were no corrections for the March 3 minutes. On a motion by McNeely,
seconded by Alt, the munutes of March 3, 1983 were approved. Park Director
Vraa said the minutes of the special meeting of February 8 were inadvertantly
left out of the packet and would be included in the May packet.
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A) WOODHAVEN ADDITION
Terry Stover, developer of the proposed Woodhaven Addition was present to explain
his proposal. He plans to construct two 18 unit apartment buildings on a two
acre site. He noted the difficult topographic problems with the site which
will necessitate a great deal of excavation and grading. Mr. Stover requested
that the park commission consider granting encroachment upon existing park
land so he would be able to complete the project. Mr. Stover also stated he
had placed the buildings in a location which would cause the least loss of
vegetation and removal of fill. He said he would like to grade the shoreline
area to make it a more pleasing one and would be willing to put in a connecting
pathway.
Mr. Martin made note that members of the commission had met on the site on
Tuesday past to review the parcel. He asked how his development would fit in
with Woodhaven Park. Park and Recreation Director Vraa showed the concept
sketch of the parcel and how a path could fit in. Chairman Martin said he
was in favor of a path as it would enhance the park and provide access to the
lake. He requested that the developer save as many trees as possible on the
south end of the job site. Mr. Stover said he intended to save as many trees
as he could but with 5 garages added to meet the required number of indoor park-
ing spaces, the building would have to sit higher; there would be more disturbance
to the terrain and a higher number of trees lost in grading.
Commission member Masin asked if it would be any problem with water run off in
regards to hurting the waterfowl. Director Vraa said the pond had an existing
outlet and that the development should not hurt the water quality. Commission
member Kubik expressed concern about the steepness of the slope and the contouring
north and west of the building. He wanted to know what means of erosion control
Park Commission Minutes
April 7, 1983
Page 2
were being proposed. Mr. Stover stated he would take steps to re-establish some
ground cover; Park Director Vraa said the grading would have to be done to the
City's satisfaction and suggested the finished grade and plantings should stand
the test of two growing seasons before it is deemed acceptable. In response to
a question, Director Vraa noted there would probably not be an asphalt surface
path constructed, but would be either wood chip or compacted limestone.
Commission member Carroll noted that the slope was too steep to put in an 8' wide
trail without a retaining wall. Mr. Stover agreed with Mr. Carroll and observed
that the area where the wall would be necessary was not too long.
Chairman Martin moved and commission member Kubik seconded that the following
recommendations be made regarding Woodhaven Addition:
1. That fill be allowed on the park property with minimal grade.
2. A bench be provided for a future trailway subject to staff review and
approval.
3. The trail tie in with Woodhaven Trail.
4. Acceptable ground cover and/or terraceing he put in place to stabilize
the soil.
5. There shall be a landscaping bond which can be released after the test of two
6. As many hardwood trees be saved as possible. growing seasons for the planting
7. Provide retaining walls, if necessary, in accordance with staff
recommendations.
8. That a cash dedication be required.
All members approved. Mr. Martin also recommended that the Planning Commission
consider the elimination of additional garages for building "B" to allow for a
manageable finished grade and to save a substantial number of trees on this
parcel and the park. The motion carried unanimously.
B) OAKWOOD HEIGHTS 2nd - SCHWANZ LAKE AREA
Director Vraa stated that this particular proposal had not been presented to
the Planning Commission because of a proposed change in the park land dedication
from the original PD proposal. The new proposal has an internal street which
decreases the amount of park land in several locations by an amount of 33,000
square feet Ralph Wagner, speaking for the developer, was present and said
they proposed to build an asphalt trail which would come off Wilderness Run,
cross at the low point of the internal street and connect up with the trail
on the other side.
Chairman Martin asked if the City would lose that 3/4 acre Mr. Wagner responded
that Mr. Hardy would probably make it up in some other area. Director Vraa noted
that Mr. Hardy's Sienna Corporation is ahead in their park dedication at
this point. Chairman Martin thought the commission should recommend that dry
land be maintained around that part of the lake and also put in an outlet. He
noted the water is at the 881' level and the original drainage plan called for
873'. Mr. Wagner was of the opinion that 877' should be the normal level. He
stated there would be a 3.1 slope to the lake. Commission member Kubik noted
that the road elevation is 893' at its low point. Chairman Martin said the
commission would not suggest a specific level but should voice concern about the
level because of the future trail around the lake. Commission member McNeely
asked if the development would raise the level of the lake. Mr. Wagner stated
that part of the overall plan is to have a lift station there to resolve the
lake level dilemma. After additional discussion the Director of Parks and
Recreation stated the commission could give tentative approval to allow the
issue to go to the Planning Commission for review and for staff to review pond
and trail erection and grades. Chairman Martin made the following motion, subject
Park Commission Minutes
April 7, 1983
Page 3
to future review, regarding Oakwood Heights: That the revision to the park
land dedication be approved with staff working out the details to insure a
lake level which will allow for a trail around the south end of the
pond; that the 3/4 acre - loss be worked out with staff for cash or future
land dedication; and that the asphalt trail along Wilderness Run be brought
into the internal road to give access to the main part of the park;that an as-
phalt trail along Wilderness Run Road be installed. The motion was seconded
by commission member McNeely and was approved unanimously.
C) SUNSET ADDITION
Parks and Recreation Director Vraa brought the commission up to date on the
proposal for Sunset Addition which is located directly west of the Saddlehorn
Addition in Section 25. He stated that the proposal calls for a change in
zoning to a PD so that 18 smaller lots could be created out of the 12 lots
originally proposed. Chairman Martin said the commission should follow through
on their 1979 recommendation which called for a cash dedication.
On a motion by commission member McNeely, seconded by Carroll, that the City
accept a cash dedication from Sunset Addition. The motion carried unanimously.
D) WINDTREE REPLAT 2nd ADDITION
Park Director Vraa presented the replat proposal which was a reduction in lot
size to increase the number of lots from 27 to 39. Director Vraa noted that
the City has already received its park land dedication from Windtree and that
no additional dedication can be required. He noted that the outlot A, combined
with the Gopher-Eagan dedication will provide the City with a 33+ acre park.
He did recommend that the commission ask to modify the development's agreement
in order to get access to the park farther to the north of the current desig-
nated access. He reviewed for the commission the grades of the site and comments
by system plan consultant Tim Erkkila. There was discussion of the access by
members who had visited the site during the fall of 1982. After additional
comments by members on a motion by Carroll, seconded by McNeely, the commission
voted unanimously to request the shifting of park access, subject to staff
recommendation at time of future platting.
PRESENTATION - LEAF COMPOSTING
Don Belkengran, a representative of Turf Supply was present to present a film
about leaf composting and to answer any questions commission members might have.
He also provided a handout from the Judd Ringer Corporation, sponsors of the
film. There was favorable discussion after viewing the film but no action was
taken.
Commission member Carroll was excused at 8:30 P.M.
NEW BUSINESS
FIELD SCHEDULING
Director Vraa stated the field scheduling, as recommended has been put into
practice. At the request of the commission, it was recommended to become an
established policy. On a motion by Kubik, seconded by Masin, the field
scheduling as presented would be an interim policy subject to review in
October. The motion passed unanimously.
Park Commission Minutes
April 7, 1983
Page 4
FEE SCHEDULE FOR NORTHVIEW ATHLETIC FIELDS
Parks and Recreation Director Vraa noted that the fee schedule for Northview
Athletic fields has not been reviewed for three years. Because of changes in
the administration of the leagues and installation of permanent bases requested
that the fees should be revised to make them more equitable and to pay for
services provided. Director Vraa said the Council would have to approve the
new fees. After a review of the proposal fees and fees of other communities,
commission member McNeely moved and Fedde seconded to adopt the new fee
schedule, with the recommended provision that lesser fees could be charged as
determined by staff for youth groups and for those instances where a one-day
event is requested. The motion passed unanimously.
OLD BUSINESS
COMMISSION OBJECTIVES AND PARK NAMES; were held over to the May meeting.
Chairman Martin was excused at 8:45 P.M.
SYSTEM PLAN STUDY
Systems plan consultant, Tim Erkkila and his associate, Craig Churchward, were
present to review concept plans for Pilot Knob Park, Schwanz Lake and Fish
Lake. Systems plan consultant Erkkila also gave an analysis and recommendation
for 10 park sites. Acquisition and development, neighborhood meetings, the
joint park/council meeting and implementation of the park plan were also
discussed.
Neighborhood meetings are to be held on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday for
the next two weeks. Systems plan consultant Erkkila said the commission
member assigned to each meeting would give a brief introduction and turn
the meeting over to Ken Vraa and himself. He urged members to do whatever
they can to increase the turnout for the meetings. Plan consultant Erkkila
said he will review definitions, standards, classifications, ponds/lakes,
special facilities need, appropriateness of special facilities and priorities
for spending. He will show the site plan for various sites, ranking plan
for possible things that can be done, all on a district by district basis.
Mr. Erkkila indicated that he was now working on the implementation section
of the plan indicating it will revolve around ways to obtain and develop parks
whether by dedication, bond issue or some other means. It will also be
necessary to discuss the when, why and how of implementation.
After a brief discussion Director Vraa indicated that a special meeting is
tentatively set for April 26 with the City Council. The tentative agenda
would include the 21 park plans, special facilities, the acquisition and
development and the implementation sections of the plan.
CONCEPT PLANS
A) Fish Lake - Plan consultant Erkkila presented alternatives A, B, and C for
Fish Lake. "A" would provide a boat access off the point with Outlot B (Pilot
Knob Heights 4th) designated as a parking lot. Alternative "B" has less park-
ing area thus limiting the number of users at any one time but would allow for
a path to the point area. Alternative "C " does not utilize Outlot B (in case
the City cannot acquire it) so there is little parking and lake users would
have to carry the boat to an access point. Members indicated some preference
for "B".
Parks Commission Minutes
April 7, 1983
Page 5
B) Pilot Knob Park is a neighborhood park and four alternatives were pre-
sented. Alternative "A" would have a small ball field, tennis courts, play
equipment, picnic area, trail linkage and an observation deck overlooking
the swamp area. Alternative "C" shows a rearrangement of most facilities
and would add a sliding hill. Both "A" and "C" show the hockey and pleasure
skating rinks at Pilot Knob school as they are today. Alternative "B" would
place two hockey rinks at the school and add an exercise trail. Alternative
"D" would have a good size ball field and two hockey rinks in the park area.
C) Schwanz Lake would be a community park. Alternative "A" is shown as being
lake oriented with parking space for 100 cars, a picnic pavilion, canoeing,
fishing dock, and swimming as a possibility. Plan consultant Erkkila pointed
out there is a need to acquire an additional 2.3 acres here. Alternative "B"
is similar to "A" but would have a two-road entrance, a major pavilion, no
swimming beach and the parking would be spread over the site for closer access.
Mr. Erkkila suggested that an additional 4.4 acre piece be acquired to put in
a driving range or BMX course as a couple of possibilities. Alternative "C"
is not lake oriented. It has a ball field, two shelters, a bandstand. Perhaps
an additionally acquired 3.8 acres could be the site for an interpretive center.
ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATIONS - 10 PARK SITES
Systems plan consultant Erkkila presented the background, issues and analysis
of and recommendation for the following park sites: Carlson Lake, Lexington,
Well Site, Highview, Oak Chase, Evergreen, Woodhaven, Heine Pond, Carnelian,
Peridot Path, and Donnywood. There was brief discussion about some of the
park sites; it was suggested that the walkway be extended in Carlson Lake Park;
if Woodhaven has two hockey rinks there might be need for more parking; the
high water level shown at Heine Pond may not now be accurate. Director Vraa
will research the water level requirements at Heine Pond. Mr. Erkkila suggested
the pond might make a good special facility - a stocking pond. Plan consultant
Erkkila noted that an additional 9 acres + should be acquired in the Donnywood
area in order to better utilize the lake.
Much discussion generated concerning Carnelian Park. Commission member Masin
had written Director Vraa of her concern regarding hockey rink usage, the tot-
lot location, the parking lot location, the possibility of a basketball court,
and activities for older children and adults. Plan consultant Erkkila said the
playground could be buffered through use of screening, berming or a fence.
The playground is 80' away from Blackhawk Road and the equipment is in a pit-
like area. Commission member Kubik suggested the hard court be switched with
the tot-lot. Mr. Erkkila suggested the biggest question is whether or not to
remove the hockey rink. Park Director Vraa said the rink is extremely diffi-
cult to maintain and to flood. Temporary boards are not a good solution. The
commission must ask if this is a good three-month usage of the land.
ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT
Craig Churchward, reviewed the acquisition and development sections. He again
reviewed the classification for neighborhood, community athletic field,
community park and special use sites. He also noted five facility classifi-.
cations: basic facilities, optional facilities, scheduled facilities, minor
Park Commission Minutes
April 7, 1983
Page 6
special facilities and major special facilities. Site suitability - is the
land appropriate for desired use? Is the site large enough? Is there suit-
able access? - were also considered.
Planning associate Churchward reviewed the criteria and need as means of ranking
parks. Other factors affecting the recommendation as to acquisition and develop-
ment are public support and population served. He did a ranking by population
and by type of park. For example, the ranking of neighborhood park develop-
ment needs showed Eagan Hills West as being a top priority followed by
Carlson/Well Site/Oak Chase/Coachman/Pilot Knob/Blue Cross/Blue Shield and
Ridge Cliff. He noted that Eagan Hills West area had the highest population
with no park to serve them.
Churchward's recommendation to the Advisory Parks Commission was to establish
rules to use now and in the future so potential developers and residents will
know what to expect regarding park facilities. He also suggested that short,
medium and long term priorities be set. There was some questioning and
discussion by the members.
He then commented on the projected athletic facilities deficiencies by 1990.
He noted that baseball fields will not keep up with the demand. Such projections
justify the land purchases to be made within the';decade.
There was some additional discussion by the members, after which Mr. Erkkila
concluded his remarks.
OTHER BUSINESS/REPORTS
Other business and reports were held over to the May meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 11:10 P.M.
L.W.
Dated:
Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
Secretary