11/03/1983 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
SUBJECT TO APPROVAL
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN., MINNESOTA
NOVEMBER 3, 1983
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called
to order by Chairman Martin at 7:00 p.m. Members present were: Bertz, Martin,
Carroll, Fedde, Alt, Masin, Thurston and Kubik. Absent were members Jackson
and McNeely. Also present were the Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa
and administrative staff, Liz Witt. Peter Stalland was present to discuss a
proposed development for his property immediately north of Blackhawk Park.
AGENDA
Director Vraa added snowmobile trail usage on the high line trail as item
(D), New Business. Commission member Thurston moved, Fedde seconded, to ap-
prove the agenda as amended. All members voted in favor.
MINUTES
Chairman Martin questioned page 2, end of paragraph 1 of the October 15 min-
utes, "that the developer provide a suitable area for play equipment generally
in the location of lot 15, block 3. Chairman Martin recalled a discussion of
two lots so the minutes were corrected to read, "that the developer provide
two lots for play equipment in the general area of lot 15." Other commission
members agreed with Chairman Martin. Parks Director Vraa will negotiate the
exact location with the developer. Carroll moved and Bertz seconded to approve
the October 15 minutes as corrected. The motion was carried.
The October 6 meeting was unofficial as ajquore`/m was not present. Chairman
Martin accepted the October 6 minutes for "the--record.
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A) Fawn Ridge - part of Lexington South PUD
This development is bounded by Wilderness, Dodd and Cliff Roads. The Director
indicated that the PD provide for a 2.4 acre parcel for Parks, which is on the
corner of Cliff and Dodd Roads. After further review, Member Bertz said the
Park has standing water and is undesirable and not useful for park purposes.
Chairman Martin asked if the City is tied to the particular parcel. Director
Vraa responded that the Commission could reject the parcel and try to renego-
tiate or make a trade. Members expressed the concern that for the second month
in succession it was getting parkland in the Lexington South PD that was unusable.
Member Kubik questioned how the City ended up with parcels such as this? Member
reviewed the history of the PD with Director Vraa indicating he would be dis-
cussing park dedication for the entire development with Mr. Curry and Mr. Hardy
in the near future, as there are several park parcels and park issues that need
to be resolved.
Minutes -
November 3, 1983
Page 2
Chairman Martin said there should be a play area in or near Fawn Ridge as
it is too far to go to the nearest park/play area. Commission member
Kubik suggested the Commission turn down the designated parcel. Chairman
Martin recommended the Commission seek a piece which would be contiguous to
a previously dedicated parcel north of the development - a nature study area.
Commission member Carroll thought the parcel should be rejected as the site
is isolated, access is difficult, the parcel has standing water and bounded
by high traffic streets.
Chairman Martin moved, Carroll seconded, to renegotiate the park dedication
and try to get a dry flat. piece near the Northwest corner of the plat. The
motion carried unanimously.
B) Kensington Place - Tomark Development
Parks and Recreation Director Vraa explained the attempts to acquire addi-
tional land to provide two ball fields and a practice area adjacent to Capricorn
Park. However, 1.4 acres was negotiated with Tomark to be designated as an
outlot for park purposes. Actual transfer will have to come from the Lex-
ington South PUD. The additional outlot will provide for one of the two addi-
tional ball fields sought.
Director Vraa suggested the Commission look at other amenties being offered
within the development, noting that five swimming pools are shown in the plans.
Chairman Martin would like to see the developers include tennis courts. Dir-
ector Vraa mentioned the possibility of sand volleyball. He did say the devel-
opers intended to wait until some units were occupied and let the homeowners
decide what additional amenities they wanted. There was discussion regarding
the need for tot lots because of the multiple dwellings.
On a motion by Kubik, seconded by Bertz, the commission voted to recommend the
developers consider tennis courts and tot lot facilities in addition to the
pools already planned. That at some time during the phasing of the develop-
ment the Commission would review future phases to determine if such amenities
should be required based on home owner mix. And, that the 1.4 acres be part of
the Lexington South PD part' dedication negotiations.
OLD BUSINESS
Systems Plan Study
Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa said the plan was complete and ready for
publication. He distributed the executive summary and commended George Kubik
for his excellent job of critiquing. The commission is to review the execu-
tive summary and make comments to Director Vraa by November 17. The City Council
and Advisory Parks Commission will hold a joint session on the Park Systems Plan
Study on November 22.
Director Vraa said the commission should address how they wish to keep the plan
updated. Perhaps the plan consultant could walk us through the process so
we could keep it up to date. Some sections may need updating annually, while
others could be done less frequently. Members discussed various alternatives
and the advantages of each for handling the System Plan undating.
Chairman Martin expressed a preference to have Plan Consultant Erkkila walk
Minutes
November 3, 1983
Page 3
the Commission through the first review. Director Vraa said Erkkila's
contract could be left open to cover. the review along with the written doc-
ument. He suggested the Commission make a decision at its December meeting.
NEW BUSINESS
A) Silver Bell Road
Attorney Pete Stalland was present to describe problems associated with a
3.5 acre parcel of land he owns north of Blackhawk Park. The property is
landlocked and he is in the process of negotiating an extension of Silver
Bell Road with the owners of Blackhawk Oaks which recently was presented for
a preliminary plat. Mr. Stalland noted the terrain is very steep and to bring
Silver Bell Road straight into the area would be very costly. He proposed
bringing the road up from Blackhawk Oaks and then along the length of his
property. The road could then provide access to Blackhawk Park.
Mr. Stalland asked the Commission to consider sharing road costs as the Park
would benefit from the road being built. He did not have actual figures but
said the road would be about $120,000 including sewer and water. Martin ques-
tioned why the City should pay for the road. Mr. Stalland said that he could
build the road as a private road, disallowing park usage. In response to
the question the Director said there is precedence for shared costs as the
City would be a benefitted property. He suggested the access would eventually
serve as a secondary one to the park. He didn't think sewer or water was need-
ed. Chairman Martin wanted more information on actual costs and that he was
in favor of considering just an easterly parking lot. Commission member Kubik
thought this might be a good place fora canoe launch. Director Vraa said the
systems plan study did not consider this area in depth as it was thought to be
several years before development. and the size of the park to be developed.
The commission agreed it was interested in access to the park, but wanted addi-
tional information. Mr.-Stalland said he will bring in more cost information
after negotiations with the owners of Blackhawk Oaks. This item will be dis-
cussed again at the December meeting after further staff review.
B) Meadowlands/Eagan Hills West - Park Concept Plans
The Director reviewed several options concerning the need and timing of devel-
oping preliminary concept plans for the Meadowland Park, realizing the priority
of the park at this time. Parks Director Vraa said it will cost about $1000
to develop a concept plan for this park parcel. To save money the Commission
might consider requesting three concept proposals and not carry the study further
at this point. Commission member Carroll said he'd like to have a sub-committee
try putting together a concept plan. He felt it would give the members a great-
er feel for what to look for when considering park development. The Commission
generally agreed they liked the idea but were already involved in several sub-
committees and time would not permit this. There was a discussion on the merits
of having the Commission play a stronger role in the development of concept plan.
The Director was asked to review alternatives for this with Mr. Erkkila.
Minutes -
November 3, 1983
Page 4
On a motion by Kubik, seconded by Alt, the Commission recommended to contract
with Plan Consultant E.rkkila to develop.a base map and three concept plans.
The motion passed unanimously. There was consensus that the Commission would
like to have a training session with Erkkila to see the concept development
process.
C) Trees -'.access to predevelopment areas.
The Director explained the memo to ;the commission regarding the removal of
trees with the new tree spade in areas which , are. being readied for develop-
ment. Chairman Martin felt the Commission should have a policy about obtain-
ing trees prior to development. Director.Vraa felt the taking of unwanted
trees directly to park sites or developing a tree nursery would be advanta
geous to the-City. The Director responded to a number of questions regarding
the process for taking of trees, possible delays to developers, and notifica-
tion. Commission member Carroll moved, Fedde seconded, the directive to Parks
and Recreation Director Vraa to formalize a policy on the taking of trees
in predevelopment areas for commission approval. The motion carried.
D) Snowmobile Trail Usage
The Snowmobile Trail Association has requested use of the high line trail
again this year. Director Vraa noted this will probably be the last year for
the trail asMn/DOT will be working in the high line and Blackhawk Road next
year.
Commission member Thurston moved, Carroll seconded, that the snowmobiles be
allowed to use the high line trail in 1983-84, noting this may well be the
last year. The Commission also approved use of Johnny Cake Road if the
Association. wants to use it. Parks Director Vraa is to work out an agree-
ment with the Snowmobile Trail Association. The motion was carried.
OTHER BUSINESS
A) Winter Skating Rinks
Parks Director Vraa said the warming house attendants will be supervising
more activities this winter such as snow man building and races. He also
said there might be a problem with the hockey association requesting more ice
time than can be made available. He thought that having Woodhaven as a per-
manent facility the problem should be alleviated. Commission member Kubik
suggested winter picnics also be considered for winter recreation and the Com-
mission agreed.
Director Vraa said another problem is poor attendance at Highview rink. He
suggested the rink could be open on weekends and on Monday night for broom-
ball. On a motion by Carroll, seconded by Bertz, the Commission voted to
keep the rink open Friday through Monday.
Commission member Bertz said there is a safety problem at the well site park.
The area between the warming house and the skating area is very bumpy causing
Minutes -
November 3, 1983
Page 5
many people to fall. Director Vraa will seek to correct the problem.
B) Sub-committee meeting dates
The Park Finance committee will meet on Wednesday, November 9, at 7 p.m: at
the park office. Park Names will meet November 16 at 7.p.m. Kehne House
will meet at 6 p.m. November 21 at the Eagan Library, just prior to the train-
ing session. Director Vraa will put outa memo of reminder for the commission
members.
C) Training Session
Jay Beckwith, nationally known play equipment expert, will present a slide
show and answer questions at a special session Monday, November 21, at the
Eagan Library. Park and Recreation Commissioners from neighboring communities
have been invited.
ADJOURNMENT
Commission member Fedde moved, Bertz seconded, the meeting be adjourned. Time
of adjournment was 10:05.
Dated:
Advisory Parks and Recreation Secretary