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06/07/1984 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA JUNE 7, 1984 A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission was called to order by Chairman Martin at 7:30 P.M.. The formal meeting was preceded by a tour of parks and potential park sites. Members present were Martin, Masin, Carroll, Bertz, Ketcham, Alt, Thurston and Kubik. Absent was Jackson; McNeely resigned. Also present were Ken Vraa, Director of Parks & Recreation, Liz Witt, Administrative Assistant; and Jim Sturm, Parks and Recreation Intern. Developers and residents were in attendance to speak on specific items on the agenda. AGENDA Richard Carroll moved, Thurston seconded, that the agenda be approved as presented. The motion carried. MINUTES Sandra Masin moved, Kubik seconded, that the minutes of May 3, 1984 be approved as presented. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Pheasant Knoll, Blackhawk P.U.D. Parks and Recreation Director Vraa reviewed concerns of the Commission from the May meeting; size and location of the road to serve the units; the closeness of the project to Heine Pond; the extension of trailways, etc.. Director Vraa then presented a revised plan for Pheasant Knoll. The road would be located approximately 30' to the west and would be of standard size. Its location and the movement of the park's parking lot would create more green space. A private road and cul-de-sac reduced in size would access the public road for a short distance to reach County Road 30. Director Vraa also noted the pond was found to be approximately 2' higher than the accepted high water mark. John Bossardt, speaking from Dunn Realty, added that a right turn lane from County Road 30 to the park road will increase the safety factor at the intersection. The housing units will be placed further to the west providing more grass space and less blacktop. The total park dedication will be 9.44 acres. The Envirofence will be part of the contract document and there storm water run off goes directly in an existing storm sewer. A new resident on Clemson Court was concerned with preserving the evergreen trees and having an erosion free slope. Rick Thole, a resident living on Heine Strasse, was afraid that many trees would be removed and also wondered who would pay for the street. He wondered why the City wanted to develop a park at all because there are already many cars parking on the streets and using the lake. He commented that if access and a park is provided, there will be even more people. He felt the access off Highway 30 at that location is hazardous.' A right turn lane would help, but access to County Road 30 1 y would be a problem, particularly in the wintertime. Ron Williams, Clemson Court resident, wanted a review of the proposed changes which would prevent erosion. He was also concerned with the algae and weed growth in Heine Pond. Mr. Bossardt commented that most of the trees would be preserved. He said the County was planning to reduce the slope on County Road 30 and install stop lights at Thomas Lake Road in the future. The Envirofence and grass plantings will effectively control erosion. Director Vraa added there are no plans to control weed growth in Heine Pond as it will be used primarily for fishing. As for traffic on/or near the site, he related the facts determined in the Systems Plan Study that by limiting parking space, people would be discouraged from using the park in large numbers. Prohibiting parking on County Road 30 will further limit excess usage. He concluded by saying the public road would be a City project, while the private road would be the responsibility of the developer. Chairman Martin felt the new proposal was an improvement. He did question where the high water mark will be. Director Vraa said that it might be lowered from the 874.5' where it is right now. In response to Chairman Martin's question about a trailway in the area, Director Vraa noted there is a 2:1 slope in the area of a proposed trail. Commission Member Carroll stated that this much of a slope would not be workable for a trail. Commission members liked the narrowing of the private roadway, but had expressed concerns about erosion control. They recognized there would be one- half acre less park than the P.U.D. called for, but felt the deficiency shall be made up as part of the Blackhawk P.U.D.. On a motion by Chairman Martin, seconded by Carroll, the Commission unanimously approved the recommendations to: 1. Accept the proposal as presented June 7, 1984. 2. Erosion control must be closely monitored. 3. Provisions for a trailway between the park road and Thomas Lake Road be a part of the proposal. 4. The Homeowners Association must maintain the park road segment which provides access to their road in the wintertime. 5. Any deficiency in park dedication would be made up in the Blackhawk Park dedication within the P.D.. B. Pilot Pointe A preliminary plan for 22 residential units along a cul-de-sac off Pilot Knob Road was briefly described by Director Vraa. He stated that a trailway should be provided along Pilot Knob Road and a cash dedication. Tom Ketcham moved, Alt seconded, to recommend acceptance of cash dedication for Pilot Pointe and provision for a trail on Pilot Knob. The motion carried unanimously. C. Draenckhahn - Rezoning and Preliminary Plat Director Vraa said the .68 acre plat is in for a rezoning and preliminary plat. The developer wishes to provide for a roadside business on the side. After discussion Carroll moved, Bertz seconded, that commercial cash dedication be a condition-of plat_ appr_ovaLfor the parcel. The motion was unanimously approved. D. Blackhawk Oaks/Blackhawk Lakes Addition: The Director of Parks and Recreation stated that this item had not been before the Planning Commission, and therefore, no planning packet was available. He then briefly reviewed the past history of the Blackhawk Oaks Addition and the issues relative to Blackhawk Park. He stated that the City has received information relative to a proposed change in the Blackhawk Oak plat and the development of Blackhawk Lake Addition immediately north of Blackhawk Park. Mr. Peter Stalland, representing the development of Blackhawk Oaks/Blackhawk Lake, and Mr. Bill Maurer of Probe Engineering, presented the two development proposals to the Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission. They stated they had spent considerable time trying to find good access to the northerly part of Blackhawk Park and the Blackhawk Lake Addition. It was indicated they could not come up with a suitable roadway because of topography and the extreme cost encountered with providing a public road. He continued to say he did not believe that suitable access to Blackhawk Park could be provided which would not meet with difficult grades within the park itself. Mr. Stalland explained that a revision of the Blackhawk Oaks Addition will provide a private roadway to the Blackhawk Lake Addition. This proposal would provide a private roadway to four large single family lots. The roadway would have to cross a portion of Blackhawk Park, affecting some 2,000 square feet. In return for this crossing of Blackhawk Park, developer would exchange Outlot "D" of approxi- mately 9,000 square feet. There was additional discussion regarding the development, roadway and temporary construction easement. Chairman Martin indicated he still wanted to see, and try to provide for, access to the park other than through a residential street as is currently the case. He questioned why a park road, which would not have to meet public road standards, could not be accomodated. Commission member Carroll recalled that the grades were extremely steep and difficult in the area described. In response to a question as to why the private roadway could not be shifted north off of park property, Mr. Stalland said roadway could not be moved because the current landowner was not interested in any development. Commission member Bertz asked if the access to Blackhawk Park had to be at the northern most point of the park. She questioned why the roadway couldn't be constructed at a relatively level area along the west property line within the gereral north area. Bill Maurer, Probe Engineering, stated that a roadway could be developed into the park at the northern most section, but access from this point to other areas of the park would still encounter steep and difficult slopes. There was a prolonged discussion by members of the Commission and developer relative as to grades and road access areas. Director of Parks & Recreation commented that the area of disagreement was reflected of the fact that Mr. Stalland had previously been before the Commission indicating that a road could be developed which would be access to the park, but that he was now saying such a roadway was not feasible. Mr. Stalland responded by saying that at the time he did not have the expertise of an engineering firm who has now indicated that such a roadway was not possible. There was a general consensus that a tour should be taken of the site before making the decision. Commission member Bertz suggested that the Commission could consider taking an easement over the private road which could be returned if not utilized. The City could then develop its plan for the park. Mr. Stalland responded that he was not prepared to consider such -a proposal until he had a further chance to study it. He asked that the Commission give consideration to the land swap at this time so the developer could include it in their proposal to the Planning Commission. Chairman Martin responded that he did not believe the Commission was prepared to make such a recommendation at this time. George Kubik then moved, Mason seconded, to delay a recommendation on Blackhawk Oaks until after a tour of the area has been made. Motion carried unanimously. Chairman Martin requested that staff set up a tour of the park site requesting that Systems Consultant, Tim Erkkila, be present to review the site with the Commission. E. THOMAS LAKE APARTMENTS -INFORMAL REVIEW: Jack Safar, representing Dominium Group, informed the Commission of a high quality rental apartment complex they propose to construct just south of Thomas Lake School. They are seeking a change in the proposed park boundaries in the P.U.D. to accomodate the apartment buildings. Perry Bolland of HGH Architectural Firm, said there is a 60' grade change on the parcel and Thomas Lake is 20' below Thomas Lake Road. The developers would preserve the shoreline, provide trail connections and put in amenities such as tennis courts. He suggested the 950' contour line as the new park boundary, resulting in approximately two acres less park which the developers would make up for by providing the amenities. Commission members were very concerned with parkland acreage and felt a full review of park dedication from the Blackhawk P.U.D. was in order. The Commission noted there are no development plans immediately available for Thomas Lake Park, but possibilities need to be considered before a decision could be made for this proposal. Commission members also wanted the point on Thomas Lake preserved for parkland and wanted to keep development as far away as possible from there. Carolyn Thurston requested a detailed listing of this park acreage proposal vs. the original proposal plus a list of the amenities and their location. It was suggested that this area was prime land and any deficiency would have to be made up in Blackhawk Park. Chairman Martin felt the Commission needed to conduct an on-site inspection before making a recommendation. He said the proposal would be placed on the July agenda. Staff was asked to do a further review. NEW BUSINESS A. LEASE REQUEST/CHESMAR PARK - NORTHWESTERN BELL: Ray Nelson, representing N.W. Bell Company, spoke to the necessity of locating a small equipment building in the area of ChesMar Park and the difficulty of finding a site that meets all criteria. The building would be 17' square and be screened by plantings. Road access would be necessary. N.W. Bell proposes a maximum of a 30 year lease for the site, payable in annual installments or one lump sum. Mr. Nelson responded to numerous questions regarding alternative locations, size of parcel, purchase of building, etc.. George Kubik commented that recent proposals before the Commission-have-asked -for a taking of parkland. As all parkland is so hard to come by, all such requests should be closely monitored. 4 Thurston noted that N.W. Bell obviously lacked foresight. She commented that she was concerned about setting a precedent for others, recounting the Fire Department's request for parkland some years ago. After discussion, Chairman Martin moved, Ketcham seconded, to authorize staff to work with Ray Nelson taking into consideration: 1. Minimal impact on trees. 2. Taking of as small a space as possible. 3. Elimination of the turn around. 4. Determine the value of trees and land being taken. 5. Impact on trailways system. 6. Notification of nearby residents of the proposed structure. The motion carried unanimously. The item is to be brought back to the Commission for a second review. WINKLER/JACKSON - CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW: This item was deferred to the July meeting due to the long agenda and late hour. PARKS BOND PARAGRAPH B The Director of Parks & Recreation commented that he hoped to have an informal discussion with the Commission at this time relative to the implementation of the development and acquisition of the parks bond. He went on to outline the basic assumptions which he felt were directions from the Commission and the City Council through past meetings. These included that the City will want to provide a quality park system while keeping in mind maintenance cost and work load. He went on to discuss these elements of the project coordination concluding by saying it was also his assumption the City would act as a general contractor for the various development aspects. Several members raised questions as to the advantages of the City acting as a general contractor and the impact on the various priorities and projects slated. Director Vraa responded by saying that project coordination could be viewed upon a horizontal access versus taking a particular park project from the first step of grading to the last step of seeding. After additional discussion, Director outlined three basic alternatives for the development final designs, specifications and project coordination. Three alternatives involve the hiring of professional architect/engineering firms to prepare the projects for biding. The second alternative would be to retain a landscape architect/planner as part of the City's staff to do much of the same work. The third alternative would be to hire a project management team to oversee the development project. The Director and Commission members then discussed the various advantages and disadvantages of each of the three alternatives. Member Kubik commented he was concerned that one landscape architect in-house would not be able to handle such a large project. Member Bertz questioned the design team structure and cost for the three alternatives. Director of Parks & Recreation responded that a project management proposal had been received which would charge 2 1/2% of the referendum's gross amount. He went on to say that this, however, did not provide any professional consulting services which would be an additional cost. Member Kubik stated he felt that the fee of 2 1/2% was 5 quite reasonable, but members should be aware this was not the only cost to be incurred. In further explaining the hiring of consulting services through a larger firm, Director explained that he was aware the City of Burnsville was paying approximately 6% plus hourly fees for inspections and follow-up for its parks projects currently under way. Numerous questions were raised by Commission members relative to current staffing levels in the department, fees and charges, time frame for activities to begin and the utilization of in-house design team. Member Thurston questioned what are some of the immediate activities and projects which could be started now. Director Vraa responded he has begun to work on a proposal for the installation of lights at Northview Park and the installation of playground equipment in those park sites in which grading is not a factor. Member Thurston asked that the acqusition of the North Athletic Field receive immediate attention. A lengthy discussion followed after which it was decided that a full Commission meeting would be held on Thursday, June 14, to address staffing needs. Member Martin asked Mr. Kubik, because of his background and experience with such large projets, to chair this meeting. OTHER BUSINESS The Director of Parks & Recreation reviewed items under "Other Business" stating that Commission member McNeely has resigned due to other job commitments. The City of Eagan, along with Apple Valley, Burnsville, Lakeville and Rosemount, joined forces to sponsor a Minnesota Symphony Concert at the Minnesota Zoo. Members of the Advisory Commissions and City Councils of the various communities will have a short reception at the Moose Lodge prior to the July 14 performance. Director Vraa said the bicycle trails brochure has been distributed to various outlets and will be made available to the general public within the next several weeks. The Director indicated that because of the lateness of the hour, he would defer his maintenance report to the July meeting. He stated, however, that Commission's input regarding the 1985 budget would be desirable over the next several weeks. Preparation of the budget is now beginning and input from the Commision should be directed to staff as quickly as possible. The Director asked that the Recreation Committee and the Special Issues Committee meet in the very near future. After discussion by the Commission relative to priorities at this time, it was decided neither of the subcommittee groups would meet until after the July Commission meeting. It was noted that the next regular scheduled meeting of the Commission was for July 5, immediately following the July 4 holiday. After discussion, Commission members selected July 12 at 7:15 P.M. as their next regularly scheduled meeting. Chairman Martin indicated that because the Commission was getting together on June 14 to discuss precedings of development issues with the parks bond, the meeting could be preceded by tours of Blackhawk and Thomas Lake Park. It was then determined members would meet at 6:30 P.M. at the entrance of Blackhawk Park, Riverton access location, and then proceed to Thomas Lake and the regularly scheduled meeting. ADJOURNMENT 6 There be no further business for the Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission, on a motion by Bertz, seconded by Kubik, the meeting was adjourned at 11:45 P.M.. Dated: Advisory Par s & Recreation Secretary