06/14/1984 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
ADVISORY PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
JUNE 14, 1984
A special meeting of the Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission was called to
order by Chairman Martin at 7:45 P.M.. Members present were Bertz, Masin,
Carroll, Thurston, Kubik, Martin, Ketcham and Alt. Absent was member Jackson.
Also present was the Director of Parks & Recreation, Ken Vraa.
Prior to the 7:45 Call To Order, the Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
made an on-site visit to Blackhawk Park and Thomas Lake Park. The purpose of
the tour to Blackhawk Park was to review the proposed preliminary plats for
Blackhawk Lake Addition and Blackhawk Oaks Addition.
BLACKHAWK PARK:
Chairman Martin asked Commission members to comment on Blackhawk Park and the
two proposed preliminary plats now that the Commission has had a chance to
make an on-site visit. Commission member Kubik indicated it was clear the
proposed roadway would be an obvious detriment to the park and he saw no value
to the City and the Parks System relative to these two proposed plats. Chair-
man Martin agreed that the on-site visit confirmed to him there would be a
great deal more disruption to the site than what seemed to be the case when
one was just looking at the plans. He continued saying that although there
was no concept plan for Blackhawk Park, the City should still try to maintain
an option of gaining access to the north as was proposed under the original
Blackhawk Oaks Addition. He indicated that he thought the grades in the park
could be worked to accomplish a park road. Commission member Alt questioned
whether the City would ever need the park road at all or the access to the
north. Commission member Martin stated that that may be the case, but with a
60 acre park with such diversity and natural resources, some type of a park
road seemed likely with its major access to the south. A secondary access on
the north may be vital to the park. He went on to say that obviously a park
concept plan needed to be developed to answer these questions. Members
discussed possible realignments of the roadway through the Blackhawk Oaks
Addition, suggesting that the best alternative appeared to be for the private
road to go through the property to the north rather than the park property.
Members commented that this appeared to be the least disruptive to the overall
site. Member Kubik commented he was concerned that all of the alternatives
have not been researched and reviewed. He has seen only the one and felt there
should be more than just-one alternative to consider. Commission member
Carroll commented his agreement and that the present plan would be totally
disruptive to this area of the park.
In response to a question, Director of Parks & Recreation responded that this
item would be appearing on the Planning-Co-rdmfss-ion's agenda in June. Member
Kubik suggested it would be a good idea for the Commission to address a
memorandum to the Planning Commission stating its concerns for this roadway
and the negative loss and impact to the Parks System. Members agreed with
Chairman Martin adding that he would suggest the Advisory Planning Commission
take an on-site view to understand the impact better. Members commented that
the proposal solved lots of problems for the developer, while at the expense
of the parks, what is the obligation of the parks to make this project work?
After further discussion, on a motion by Kubik, seconded by Bertz, with all
members voting in favor, the Director of Parks & Recreation was directed to
write a letter to the Advisory Planning Commission indicating that the Parks &
Recreation Commission had grave concerns relative to the two proposed
preliminary plats which would create a significant loss of mature oaks (white
oaks), disruption to the site in general, subsequent erosion problems, and the
non-benefit to the City of Eagan. Motion carried. Chairman Martin stated
that the developer should be required to look at all other alternatives rather
than providing this road through park property as is being requested.
THOMAS LAKE PARK:
Chairman Martin asked Commission members to comment on the Thomas Lake Park
tour relative to the informal proposal received the week previously. There
were general comments by the Commission relative to the beauty and uniqueness
of the site and the proposed locations of the apartment complex. Member
reiterated they felt the easterly most building must be moved back further
from the shoreline than that which was first proposed. Chairman Martin
suggested that the tennis courts that were first proposed were probably not
located where he had originally thought, but still was concerned about whether
the need for the courts was valid. There was further discussion by the
Commission relative to the proposed plan and park site with no action being
taken.
PARKS BOND/DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM:
Director of Parks & Recreation briefly reviewed an update with the Commission
relative to the three alternatives under discussion. Commission member Kubik
stated that he preferred to see an internal landscape architect, but such an
individual will be difficult to find. He went on to state that the projects
in the park will involve not only design detail, but a certain degree of civil
engineering as well. Director of Parks & Recreation responded this was indeed
the case ad it would be essential to hire an experienced individual versus
someone who has been in the field only a short time. Member Martin commented
that it appeared the landscape architect position would be the least
expensive of the alternatives. Member Alt questioned the need for a
professional management team whose cost would be an addition to any design
services. Member Martin stated he was in agreement that this was an added
cost to the project. Members then reviewed the management project proposal as
submitted with the consensus that this was the least preferred method. Kubik
indicated that their fees of 2 1/2% plus expenses was, in fact, very
reasonable as far as project management firms go, but he felt staff at the
City would still have to do much of the coordination and interface with the
firm if it were used. There were additional questions relative to the
position description for the landscape architect, advantages and disadvantages
of an outside consulting firm, and some of the concerns relative to both. In
response to a question, the Director of Parks & Recreation responded he has
had previous experience under both types of alternatives. He indicated he had
a preference for the internal landscape architect position because he felt it
offered the best control of the project and that it could be most flexible and
responsive to park needs and individual parks problems. He went on to say
that the concern was, as Mr. Kubik had previously indicated, in finding the
right individual and making the assumption that this one person could complete
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the entire task. Commission Member Carroll said it was his understanding we
would indeed have to have additional services and assistance within the
department to accomplish this. Members Kubik and Martin agreed, stating that
we will need the flexibility of bringing in additional help or expertise as
the case may be called for.
Member Martin stated that it was his understanding that cost for this
individual would come from the Bond Referendum money and as long as the cost
for a landscape architect plus any additional outside fees remained below the
6% outside consulting firm cost, this would be acceptable. There was general
discussion relative to the types of services that would be necessary,
concluding in agreement with Mr. Martin's statement. Member Kubik stated,
however, that he felt the design and management load on staff has still not
been adequately addressed. He stated it was already obvious that not only was
the department understaffed now in areas of recreation and in the Director's
time, but this project of parks development was going to consume at least half
of the Director's time in overall management and decision making. He stated
that the mere fact the project is underway means that the department is
already short 1/2 person and the Commission needs to insure that the project
doesn't fail or that other issues in the department are not addressed because
of insufficient staff time. Member Thurston inquired as to the workload and
status of help available to the department. Director of Parks & Recreation
briefly reviewed the current status of authorized employees and positions.
Commission member Alt stated that with the successful referendum, now is the
appropriate time to review departmental priorities for staffing. She stated
she recognized the need for maintenance personnel, but suggested that the
authorized maintenance position could be used for other priorities.
Commission member Kubik agreed, saying that the special committee on
recreation was also concluding that additional help would be necessary in the
very near future, if not now, for the growing recreational programs. There
was general discussion by the Commission relative to the various priorities
and needs of the department and the development projects. Member Kubik
suggested that there be a need for general assistance in the overall
operation of the department and parks development combined with recreational
programming. He continued saying he suggested that the City hire a full-time
assistant specialist for Parks & Recreation, rather than the maintenance
position. Member Thurston questioned if this wasn't something that should be
addressed in the 1985 budget. Martin agreed that that would be the normal
procedure of things, but when the budget was prepared a year ago no one knew
that we would be sitting twelve months later with the problems of staffing as
the result of a successful parks bond referendum. Members stated their
agreement that the referendum has brought about a whole new set of
circumstances and priorities and would dictate a change at this time, rather
than waiting an additional six months when we are well into project
development. Kubik continued saying it is important that everyone recognize
the impact the referendum will have and the need to react quickly. After
further discussion, there was a motion by Dick Carroll, seconded by George
Kubik, to recommend to the City Council that a landscape architect be hired
for the duration of the parks development program to be funded through the
parks bond referendum money; further, that staff be authorized to utilize
additional consulting or outside services as may be necessary, including the
utilization of the City's Parks Consultant, Tim Erkkila, to begin the
development project. Further, that the Council review the need for an
additional full time staff person to assist in the department. Motion
carried. Chairman Martin asked that the minutes reflect the Commission has
taken this action because of the urgency- f_the_action to meet the fall time
frame for project development, that this is cost effective and maximimizes
the dollars spent on project cost, that it is the most responsive course of
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action for meeting development project priorities and departmental operations.
Commission Member Kubik questioned if the landscape architect is approved and
hired and he were to be utilized on other projects outside of the development
program, would that be chargeable to another account? Director of Parks &
Recreation explained there are certain fundings within the normal operational
budget for parks consulting services which could be charged against on an
hourly basis for work done outside the scope of the referendum.
NORTHWESTERN BELL UTILITY BUILDING:
Director of Parks & Recreation asked the Commission to provide further
direction relative to the request from Northwestern Bell for a utility
building on City park property. He indicated that several members have gone
out to the recently staked building location. He stated this new location,
with minor adjustments, would have the least impact upon the park. Member
Thurston inquired if other issues raised at the previous Commission meeting
had been met. Director of Parks & Recreation responded that Northwestern Bell
was in agreement with the new building location and had recently contacted him
and agreed to the elimination of a turn around. However, he said the 10' wide
driveway would have to be increased to 12' in width for safety reasons. He
also indicated that Bell was willing to change the composition of the building
to meet aesthetic concerns of the Commission and would be seeking direction
from the Commission relative to this. There were additional concerns and
questions relative to the length of lease, liability, contract termination and
concern for disruption to the site during construction. Member Thurston
reiterated her concern for precedent setting and the lack of Northwestern Bell
to plan adequately. Commission member Carroll agreed, stating that he hated
to see disruption to the park site. He questioned whether there would be
sufficient room for a trailway in the future. Director of Parks & Recreation
responded that such a trail would still be to the north of this building. In
response to a question, the Director responded that Northwestern Bell would be
responsible for contacting the three residents who are closest to the building
to inform them of this issue. Commission member Kubik stated he felt that the
lease agreement should include a clause which would terminate the lease should
Bell try to use the facility for some other purpose than is being approved at
this time. He stated that technology is changing swiftly and he hated to see
the facility being used for storage or other purpose than its intended use at
this time. Members of the Commission agreed and asked the Director of Parks &
Recreation to insure this was included in the lease agreement. Members agreed
that the lease should provide for the cash payment up front, with funds to be
deposited in the park site acquisition and development fund. Members
expressed concern for landscaping of the site. Director responded that
Northwestern Bell has agreed to provide the landscaping that may be
appropriate. After further discussion, it was moved by Carroll, seconded by
Bertz, with members voting their approval to recommend Northwestern Bell
proceed with a site survey for this location for further staff review.
Further, should there not be a need for further adjustments, The Commission
approved the recommendation to the City Council for this facility.
Director of Parks & Recreation was directed to relate to Northwestern Bell
that the facility should be changed in appearance to meet the aesthetics of
the park, that a 15 year lease with five year option shall be negotiated, that
Northwestern Bell will be responsible for any liability associated with the
building and its construction, should the use change from that which is being
requested at this time, the lease shall be terminated; that construction
limits be established to insure there is no disruption to nearby vegation, and
for staff to report back at the next regularly scheduled Commission meeting.
Member Carroll expressed concern relative to construction of the facility and
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possible disruption to roots from nearby trees. He requested that staff be
involved with identifying construction limits and exact location of the
building to minimize this possible disruption.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business for the Advisory Commission, this movement
seconded to adjourn at 9:45 P.M..
Dated: :
Advisory Parks & Recreation retary
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