02/06/1986 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE
ADVISORY PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
FEBRUARY 6, 1986
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Martin at 7:10 P.M. Members
present were Martin, Porter, Ketcham, Alt, Masin, Bertz, Kubik, Caponi and
Thurston. Richard Carroll had notified staff he would be unable to attend.
Also present were Parks & Recreation Director, Ken Vraa; Landscape
Architect/Parks Planner, Stephen Sullivan; Planner, Jim Sturm and
Administrative Assistant, Liz Witt. Dorothy Peterson introduced newly-hired
Recreation Supervisor, Paula Sunder, to the Commission. Chairman Martin
welcomed newly-appointed Commission member, Bob Porter. Other guests were
present to address specific items on the agenda.
AGENDA
Items were added to Park Development and Other Business. Commission member
Thurston moved, Kubik seconded, that the agenda be approved as amended. The
motion carried.
MINUTES OF JANUARY 9, 1986
A correction was noted on page four that it was Commission member Alt, not
Masin, who commented on three wheelers being operated on City streets. Sandy
Bertz moved, Ketcham seconded, the minutes be approved as corrected. The
motion carried.
ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Parks & Recreation Director, Vraa, called for nomination for Commission
chairman. Roger Martin was the only nominee and was elected unanimously.
Chairman Martin then called for nominations for vice-chair; Carolyn Thurston
was nominated and elected by unanimous ballot. Chairman Martin then called
for nominations for secretary. Richard Carroll was the lone nominee and
elected by unanimous ballot. Following the election of officers the committee
assignments were made.
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. STUART'S FIRST ADDITION - STUART NOLAN
Planner, Jim Sturm, reviewed the development proposal for the Commission. He
noted there are to be 144 rental units with a recreaiton building in an R-4
zoned district just west of Tomark near Lexington and Yankee Doodle Road. One
bedroom units will rent for $575 and two bedrooms for $675 per month.
Director Vraa said that Lexington Avenue is to be upgraded and that the City
should recommend trail dedication along Lexington payable when the improvement
takes place.
Carolyn Thurston made the motion, seconded by Alt, to recommend cash
dedication for the units and trail dedication on Lexington to be paid when
Lexington is upgraded. All voted in favor.
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February 6, 1986
B. BUR OAK BILLS - HARSTAD CO.
Jim Sturm noted that proposal is the former South Delaware Hills P.U.D. It
consists of 111 acres bounded by Hwys. 149 and 55 and Inver Grove Heights.
The current proposal is for 204 single family homes all on lots of greater
than 12,000 sq. ft. He said that Harstad Co. wishes to abandon the P.U.D.
concept and proceed with R-1 zoning. The Planning Commission approved the
proposal subject to concerns of the Parks & Recreation Commission and
amendment of the P.U.D. agreement. Planner Sturm said the Planning Commission
approved the proposal after their concerns with cul-de-sacs and grading had
been addressed. He noted that the park dedication has been sharply reduced
from the original P.U.D. proposed dedication and that some of the proposed
trail is lower than the high water elevation of 820'.
Mr. Jim Merila, Registered Engineer for the Harstad Companies, then presented
a brief slide show of other Harstaa development and various shots of the Eagan
site. He said the main access to the development would be off Highway 149.
There would be an interior looped street, thus reducing the number of cul-de-
sacs originally proposed.
Mr. Merila noted there are 25 1/2 acres of park and pond area, most of which
are under the high water elevation of 820'. He said the Company worked with
Eagan Parks Consultant, Tim Erkkila, to provide a concept plan for the
proposed activity site in the NW corner of the 25 acres. The developer is
prepared to do some grading and build retaining walls by the tennis courts.
Mr. Merila cited a cost of $200 per lineal foot of roadway which would
prohibit giving up 400-600' for access purposes. He did say that the proposed
ball field area is at the 820' level so it's conceivable that it could be
under water some of the time. He did not think that this situation was
unusual for ball fields in many communities. He noted the City has proposed
to construct a pedestrian bridge along the south edge of Bur Oak pond which
could connect to the trail in the development. Mr. Merila noted that the
trail will be constructed at the 817' level even though that level is 3' under
the 820' high water elevation. He noted that the pond itself is set at an
809' control level.
He concluded by saying that the difference between the original and present
proposal was an exchange of park along the eastern edge of the pond for a
piece in the north and one in the south.
Mr. Ken Briggs, Development Director for Harstad Companies then spoke to the
Commission. He noted there are 100 less units with this proposal than with
the original P.U.D. He said the neighbors are supportive and the Planning
Commission gave unanimous approval. He stated further that there will be no
P.U.D. arrangment with the proposal. He said that to meet code requirements,
the developer is to give a certain amount of parkland - period. Mr. Briggs
stated that it would cost too much to provide a 600', or even a 400', access
to the park as asked for by staff. He said the Harstad Companies is providing
usable parkland of more than 10% and they have no further obligation.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
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Commission. member Bertz noted that the developer picked up at least 12 lots
with the new park configuation and "gave" the City a small, steep parcel in
exchange. She said the current proposal is not giving the City adequate
usable parkland. The limited access.. does not allow for adequate parking. The
proposed overlay of ball and soccer fields is dangerous. The developer gave
pieces of' land which are under water, have steep slopes or are on the
pipeline.
Mr. Briggs responded that the developer is meeting the required, park
dedication-and--how-the City-Jays out the amenities-is its responsibility, not
the developer's.
Chairman Martin addressed.another concern - that of the proposed trail set an
an 817' level which is 3'- less than the "100 year" high water elevation of
820'. He noted there is already an unusable trail around a pond in Eagan and
he didn't want to'have another. Chairman Martin said pond outlets are getting
plugged with all the additional sediment from so much construction and now
those ponds are always at the high water elevation.
After additional discussion, Director Vraa showed the development with an
overlay of water and topo features which impact a potential park. Of the 25.6
acres which the Harstad.Companies proposes to dedicate, the pond area and area
of greater than 14% s lope 'amount to 19.6 acres. The remaining six acres are
in three pieces of 2.9 acres, 1.8 acres and 1.3 acres. He reminded the
Commission that water can be credited for 50% as long as 70% of it is above
the high water mark. Hj.felt the 1.8 acre parcel was not useful to either the
developer or the City. Mr. Vraa said the developer had followed the letter of
the law, but not the intent.
Mr.. Vraa._entinued. Because the developer insists on abandoning the P.U.D,
the.Commiagion should-determine if this (his) proposal meets the 10% parkland
dedication requirement. If not, what should be done so it meets City
standards? He also-stated that Parks Planning Consultant, Tim Erkkila, had
called and stated that he did assist the.-de vel oper with a park concept; but
the developer changed the plan and-Mr. Erkkila made it clear he has no
ownership in the present plan.
Director Vraa reviewed the specific concerns with the play area of the park
saying that the developer did propose to do some grading and lower the-height
of the retaining walls. He voiced concern, however with the proposed parking
lot location and proximity of the adjacent homes. He.-was also concerned with
the overlay of ball/soccer fields and the location of the ball field under the
high water elevation. He then showed staff a proposed- concept plan for the
park which moved the amenities to provide better utility access and greater
road frontage for access.
Ken Briggs objected to the staff plan. He said the Eagan code does not spell
out specifics of parks dedication. The developer is required to give 11 acres
which is 10% of a 111 acre parcel. The developer objects to taking of street
frontage of 600' for access because that is over and above what is required.
He felt there was no need to have open access to the park because the park was
for the neighborhood. "Outsiders" should not be invited in via open access.
Mr. Briggs cited a San Francisco Parks Planner who advocates little or no
access to a park.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
February 6, 1986
Chairman Martin said the developer is telling the City what land it can have
for park-and--the Commission does not find the proposal acceptable.
Carolyn-Thurston said that the Commission -is_charged to provide quality parks.
She noted i -was apparent the developer was hung up on the use of street--
frontage for park access. Ms. Thurston said the City is interested in usable
land for parks and the' developer has taken all of the usable land for lots.
Three small pieces have been provided, none of which really address the'need
for active parkland that has been demonstrated for.that park service area..
Mr. Briggs said Harstad Companies cannot develop the land and pay an
additional one-half to three-fourths of a million dollars to accomodate road
frontage for a..City park. He said that if the Commission could not accept the
present proposal, then the property will revert back to the old P.U.D. with
its greater housing density.
Commission member Caponi said that the City cannot use land and -trails which
are under water. He felt if the City accepted the parkland and trail as
proposed, then the City would be faced with water problems and the developer
would be long gone. Mr. Caponi noted that a good park will increase the value
of surrounding land.
Mr. Briggs said the parcel would be worth much more without a park. He said,
further, that most people who live by parks hate them. He said the developer
intended to deepen the pond, thus enlarging the storage capacity subject to
approval by the Department of Natural Resources.
Commission member Kubik noted there is an excess of land that the City cannot
use for a park. He asked if there were a better piece somewhere on the
parcel. .
Ken Briggs said,,that the developer had to-pay for 25 acres of water and'cannot.
afford to provide the road frontage staff had proposed. The-concept plan
proposed by Mr..,Erkkila was then, reviewed.
Chairman Martin said that space is needed for active play and that he felt a
larger road access than is being shown by the developer is necessary. He is
apprehensive about the trail being placed at the 817' level in the first
place. He thinks enlarging the pond's storage capacity might serve to raise
the water level even more. ,
Mr. Briggs said he woul-d like to work with the Commission- and if it's more
space than they want for parks, the developer will provide it, but he won't
provide it if'he has to give up road frontage.
George Kubik asked if it would be possible for staff to meet with the
developer and see if there might be some alternatives which might be
acceptable to the City and the developer and the Commission could look at it
in March. Mr. Briggs said he intended to be on the February 18 City Council
agenda regardless of the Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission's
recommendation.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
February 6, 1986
After further-discuss±on, Commission member Caponi made i motion, seconded by
Kubik, that staff meet with the developer to consider alternative designs to
peetCit3 needs. Staff should bring the following concerns to the discussion
and return to the Commission in March:
-1. There is a need for active parkland in the area. =
2. The trail should not be below the 820' elevation.
3. There must be adequate access to the park.
4. There should be adequate, internal parking in the park.
•5.- Safety must-be-foremost-when locating recreational amenities.
The motion was approved unanimously.
Commission member Kubik requested staff to review bounceback of the pond area,
the potential for flooding and--ether related engineering data. Chairman
-Martin added erosion control to the review- list. These issues will be
Included in the March agenda with the Bur Oak proposal.
C. ADVENT UNITED METHODIST CHURCH
The church is to be constructed south of the Westbury Addition and the
contractor wishes to drain the site into Patrick Eagan Park. Director Vraa
said the staff will be meeting with church representatives to provide for
temporary drainage until Lexington Avenue is upgraded. George Kubik moved,
Main seconded, to recommend there be no cash dedication unless the use
changes. Trail dedication is required, but would be postpon"d until
Lex-ingtma is upgraded. The motion passed.
D. K. CHARLES DEVELOPMENT
fianner Jim Sturm explained the proposal as 18,000 sq. ft. of strip shopping'
center with 13,000 sq. ft. in retail and 5,000 sq. ft. in food stores. The
center will be located near the intersection of Duckwood and Crestwood. The
Planning Commission has approved the preliminary plat. Commission member Alt
made the motion, seconded by Bertz, to recommend cash dedication for the
center and the landscape plan as shown be implemented. The motion carried.
E. 'UPDATE - JIM STURM
Planner Sturm stated that the Remick Addition by Highview Park had been
approved wFiile the Greensboro proposal was continued. Upcoming for the
February Planning Commission agenda are: Lexington Third consisting of 10
lots; Park Knoll which is a single family development and a 23 acre site owned
by Opus Corporation which might feature a long term residential hotel, a gas
station, fast food and restaurant facilities.
OLD BUSINESS
A. PARK/SCHOOL SITE ACQUISITION - SECTION 14
Director Vraa explained the land survey completed for the site revealed that
there is not as much land in the proposed site as originally thought. In
order to make the site work, Mr. Vraa proposes the City and school district
jointly purchase Parcel A, an adjoining five acre piece. The purchase price
for Parcel A is reportedly $45,000. Stephen Sullivan described various
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
February 6, 1986
concept plans utilizing Parcel A. He reaffirmed the need to acquire Parcel A
because the surveyed parcel did not allow sufficient space for field
distances &road access.
Chairman Martin asked if the City was to participate in a partial or the'
entire purchase of Parcel A with the school district. Commission member
Caponi asked who and how is the jointly-owned site administered. Director
Vraa stated the school district was primarily concerned with siting the
building, road;i etc. leaving the City to be concerned with the rest of the
land-assuming both awould. work together. The director stated that he was
hopeful that-the district will buy the entire 33.05 acres and the City will
purchase 11 from the district.
Commission member Caponi made the motion, seconded by Kubik, to recommend that
staff work with the district towards reaching a joint purchase agreement for
up to one-third of the entire site and that the City have full use of the
land. All voted in favor.
B. PARK DEDICATION REVIEW
This item was deferred to the next meeting.
C. VOLUNTEERS & _CONTRIBUTORS RECOGNITION - COMMITTEE REPORT
Special Issues Committee Chair, Roger Martin, stated that the committee agreed
that the people who are park volunteers should be honored or given some
recognition. Included in the packet is a list of awards which might be given
with a brief description of recipient qualifications. Awards range from a
plaque to pens. Commission member Thurston moved, Bertz seconded, to approve
the recognitions program-as recommended. The motion carried.
D. PARK LOCATION - SECTION 21 _
This item was deferred to--the next-meeting.-
E. DRAFT LETTER - DAKOTA COUNTY BICYCLE TRAILS PLAN
The Commission reviewed the original letter along with another which made some
changes. Commission members were appreciative of the effort and on a motion
by Kubik, seconded by Ketcham, approved the Caponi revised draft which will be
submitted to the newspaper in March. Commission members were encouraged to
write individual letters too.
NEW BUSINESS
A. ROAD NAME
A request had been received to name the connecting road into Blackhawk Park
after former Mayor, Leo Murphy. There was some discussion, then the
Commission referred the item to, the Park Names Committee. Committee Chair,
Richard Carroll, will set a meeting date soon.
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Adv..Parks & Rec. Comm.
February 6, 1986
B. 1986 BUDGET
Director Vraa distributed the 1986 City budgets. He noted some corrections to
the parks section.
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C.- LETTER OF SUPPORT - PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON. RICAN OUTDOORS
The President established a Commission to study the quality and quantity of
recreational opportunities in the nation. The State--of.Minnesota then
established a Commission of Minnesota Resources which will address Minnesota
needs. Director Vraa recommends the City send a letter of support emphasizing
the importance and continuing need to expand/improve recreational
opportunities. Commission member Kubik moved, Martin seconded, to approve
sending a letter of support for the federal and state commissions. The motion
carried.
PARK DEVELOPMENT..
A. PARK SHELTER BUILDINGS
Director Vraa and Landscape Architect, Stephen Sullivan, presented the new
design for the park building at Goat Hill Park. The tower had been deleted
and the resulting structure keeps the continuity with other Eagan park
structures. The building was also shifted on the site to allow for a view of
the pleasure skating rink. Commission members favored the new design, but
were still concerned with the lack of windows for viewing the remaining play
areas. After further- discussion, Carolyn Thurston made a motion, seconded by
Kubik, to approve the new design and requested that other exterior
applications be -explored to make it a more interesting building. The
architects are to address the present lack of view of the play field by adding
more windows and/or shifting the building on the site. All voted in favor.
Director Vraa then reviewed the costs for the park shelter buildings. He said
projected costs are $462,000 which include a $30,000 contingency. He asked
for direction in case the bids went over estimate. After some discussion,
Commission member-Kubik moved, seconded by Bertz, to approve the encumberance
of $462,000 from the Park Site Fund. The Commission is concerned with the
total costs and will.allow flexibility on individual structure costs. If
total costs are unreasonably high, the Commission prefers to review again.
A11 voted in favor. L
B. PARK CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW & COST PROJECTIONS
Blue Cross/Blue Shield Park - The City will acquire 10.5 acres and not 12 with
the acquisition to be completed within_ 60 days. One ball field was eliminated
and the park access was relocated. Park Planner/Landscape Architect, Stephen
Sullivan, described park amenities and locations of each. Director Vraa noted
that the 10.5 acres appears sufficient and there is no significant benefit in
acquiring all 12 acres with this revised plan. Member George Kubik moved,
Martin seconded, to accept the Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan as presented. The
motion carried.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
February 6, 1986
COACHMAN/QUARRY HILL PARK
Stephen Sullivan presented the concept plan for Quarry Hill Park. He noted it
is very similar to what was originally proposed. George Kubik moved, Thurston
seconded, to accept the plan for Quarry Hill Park as presented. The motion-
earried: _ 7.
MEADOWLANDS S.
- e
Stephen Sullivan noted that plan-is also similar to what was originally
proposed. Internal trails are tied to the Highline Trail; there are sliding
hills and a frog catching deck. The Commission was reminded that the two
tennia'courts were deleted in the bond proposed. Commission: member Alt-moved,
Bertzrseconded, to accept the plan-for Meadowlands-Park as presented.
PILOT KNOB PARK
Director Vraa stated there is a natural gas line through the site and it lies
fairly shallow in the-ground. This means the City cannot grade enough to
establish a sufficient base for the hockey rinks. Stephen Sullivan presented
three designs-which would-call for 10,000, 5,000 or 2,000 cubic yards of fill
accordingly. The Commission discussed the three plans and preferred Alternate
C)which was the least expensiveyhaving the tot lots by the tennis courts and
away from the road. On a motion by Caponi, seconded by Martin, the Commission
recommended Alternate C be prepared as the preferred-concept plan., The motion
carried.
SOUTH OAKS PAR[
This- concept plan was modified somewhat because more accurate topos dictated
change. -There is only-room for one tennis court unless the Commission saw the
need to eliminate additional trees. There are some steep grades, but most of
the area is very flat and more fill is needed to create drainage. A few oak
trees will have to be• removda• and there will be a- trail-and stairs to the
beach. -It was -noted that the-canoe launch was not included so some shifting
around will have to take place in order to accomodate it. Commission member
Kubik moved, seconded by Ketcham, to accept the plan for South Oaks Park with
the addition of a canoe launch. :The motion carried.-
G. UPDATE - OHMANN PROPERTY
birestorVraa_said that Mrs. Lemond has agreed to $13,000 per acre for 15
acres. There will be no written agreement until the estate is settled. There
is no activity on the property to the north which Derrick Land Company is
planning to develop.
Chairman Martin expressed concern that a great deal of time has passed and
still no athletic site. The Commission should relook at the property east of
Highway 149 and make a decision if it caztafford to risk the wait on the
Ohmann parcel. An athletic site must be acquired soon.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
February 6, 1986
OTHER BUSINESS & REPORTS
A. UPDATE STORM SEWER IMPROVEMENTS - BARN PARK This item was deferred to the next meeting.
B. GOLF NETTING, BATTING CAGE
This item was deferred to the next meeting.
C. WINTER WEEKEND
Chairman Martin asked that all members review the weekend schedule and
volitnteer to assist with at least one activity. -Members should contact
Dorothy Peterson with their preferences as soon as possible.
ADJOURNMENT
Commission member Alt moved, Kubik seconded, that the meeting be adjourned.
Time of adjournment was 11:20.
DATED:
ADVISORY PARKS & RECREATION SECRETA
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