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03/06/1986 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION CITY OF EAGAN MARCH 6, 1986 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Martin at 7:10. Members present were: Porter, Masin, Martin,-Bertz, Carroll, Ketcham, Kubik, and Caponi. Commission members Thurston and Alt had notified staff they would be unable to attend. Staff present were: Parks & Recreation Director, Ken Vraa; Landscape Architect/Parks Planner, Steve Sullivan; Planner Jim Sturm and Administrative Assistant, Liz Witt. There were many people in the audience, most of them interested in the Bur Oaks proposal. AGENDA Director Vraa added items G-3 and 4 to other Business. Chairman Martin announced that a meeting between Harstad Company representatives and staff had not taken place as agreed upon at the last Commission meeting. Further, the developer had provided material at 4 p.m. on the meeting day, too late for inclusion in the packet, or for review by staff. Chairman Martin asked if the Commission was in agreement to remove from the agenda. All agreed. Martin stated that because of the number of residents from the area, comments would be taken from interested members of the audience. On a motion by Masin, seconded by Carroll, the agenda was approved as amended. The motion carried. MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 6, 1986 Commission member Carroll moved, Kubik seconded, that the minutes be approved as presented. All voted in favor. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS 1. PARK KNOLL - TRI-LAND The proposal is for 15 single family homes near Schwanz Lake, Walnut Hill Parks and the High Line Trail. It received planning Commission approval, but there were concerns expressed regarding the slope, sandy soil and vegetation. A 20' setback variance was approved in order to save trees on the site. The parcel is part of the Lexington South PUD and not subject to park dedication. Commission member Carroll moved, seconded by Bertz, to recommend trail dedication on Wilderness Run Road and strict observance of erosion control practices due to the soil and terrain conditions. The motion carried. 2. LEMAY LAKE 2ND ADDITION Planner Sturm explained that the proposal is for a PUD for commercial and long- term hotel development on a 23 acre site. Some commercial uses being considered are a service station, restaurants, and a 120 room hotel for long- term (one week, one month) stays. Commission member Kubik expressed concern about the affect the development would have on the water quality of the lake. 1 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. March 6, 1986 He hoped the City would require stiff bond requirements to insure the developer would meet siltation standards. He noted there isn't sufficient staff to monitor construction constantly. Chairman Martin agreed and said the developer had to include erosion control throughout the entire construction cycle. Planner Sturm said, the developer was told about these concerns and the landscape policy requirements when he first made application to the City. After discussing other concerns, Commission member Kubik moved, Porter seconded, the following recommendations: 1. Cash dedication, 2. A substantial bond requirement to insure siltation standards are adhered. to, 3. The landscape policy will be enforced, 4. There be trail easement along the east edge of the Lake, and 5. There be a trail along Lone Oak Road if it is not already there. All voted in favor. LEXINGTON PLACE 3RD ADDITION Planner Sturm reviewed the proposal for the Commission, explaining that lot C was originally scheduled to be a passive park/recreational area and now is scheduled to have 10 single family homes. He noted the Planning Commission continued the item and wanted to have the Parks & Recreation Commission review. Director Vraa traced the history of the development and, said the area was originally R-4. The area south of Duckwood was platted as single family with two out lots for open space. Q.S. Homes Corp. had planned for a homeowners association to maintain the open space. The market was not there so they sought approval to plat the outlots into 16 lots in July of 1985. The Parks & Recreation Commission recommended denial and the application was withdrawn. Q.S. Homes then sold much of the area south of Duckwood Drive, including the outlot to Frontier-Midwest who are requesting a replat to 10 lots. Chairman Martin said he felt the same way he did when Q.S. Homes. first requested the platting of the outlots. He said, the recreational area is needed to serve the residents. The nearest neighborhood park cannot accommodate all of the additional people and it would be dangerous for the younger children to cross the heavily traveled Lexington Ave. to get to the park. He was concerned with the large amount of fill put into the pond area by the previous land owner and the possible loss of the large oak trees. Mark Parranto, representative for Frontier-Midwest said the kids can play in the large back yards. He noted that the request is for 10 additional houses on lots that exceed the 12,000 sq. ft. zoning. Also, that the site can be developed as is - without grading or construction work near the water. Commission member Ketcham stated that he is strongly opposed to the development of the outlot. He said, the recreational area is needed as it is too dangerous to cross Lexington Ave. to get to the park, and was part of the original agreement with the City. He also mentioned, that realtors have claimed the outlots will be recreational areas when they market the lots. In response to the question of previous knowledge of the outlot issue, Mr. Parranto stated there is no agreement which speaks to the outlot as open space. Q.S. Homes merely stated they planned to have an outlot, but it was never written into any agreement. 2 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. March 6, 1986 Commission member Kubik thought the Planning Commission designated the out lot as open space as one condition of approval. He then suggested the developer consider putting a tot lot on one of the lots. He asked Director Vraa_if the site would present maintenance problems-if usedCfor recreational space.' Mr. Vraa said 'the area would be somewhat difficult to maintain'because of the uneven terrain, and- most likely would be assigned a class "C" priority. He also noted that the Plannine'Co®mission had recommended trail dedication for Outlot B and this condition did not appear-in the City Council minutes. Commission member Porter moved, seconded by Kubik, the recommendation for L staff- to review=the council -minutes for exact conditions of approval; review all actions on the outlots and to explore alternative solutions. The item will be on the April agenda. All voted in favor. 4. UPDATE ON MARCH PLANNING ISSUES Planner Sturm previewed incoming proposals and noted there will be park dedication on several of the projects. The largest proposal is for 324 apartments on a 38 acre site. One hundred forty five single family homes are proposed for the Obmann property. There are to be 38 more single family homes in NorthviewMeadows and a large., office structure on Silver Bell Road: 1. BUR OAK-HILLS - HARSTAD COMPANY Chairman Martin noted that at the last Commission Meeting, it was understood the developer's representatives were to have met with staff to' consider alternate designs for the park. The meeting did not take place despite Mr. Vraa's cont acts by phone and letter indicating that packet preparation would the Friday, the 28th. Chairman Martin said the item would not be considered at the March meeting because there was no new material to discuss. The developers delivered some information to Director Vraa at 4 pm. - three hours before the regular meeting was to start. He said, that because there were interested residents in the audience, the commission should hear their comments. The Director then recapped for the Commission and audience the history of the Bur Oaks project, emphasizing parks. Originally, there was to be relatively dense housing with over °400 units. The current proposal is for 204 single family homes on lots over 12,000 square feet in size. The original PUD provided for 28 acres -of. parkland but was never final platted. The Harstad proposal calls for 23 plus acres of park, most of which is under the high water elevation. He said, there will be less than 10 acres over the high water elevation, and much of that had steep slopes or was over the pipe line. Mr. Vraa expressed concern with the developers proposal for an 85' access to the park, the parking lot to be placed between two residential lots, grading and potential loss of trees, etc. Prior to the February meeting the City staff had discussed its concerns with Harstad representatives. Staff relocated the play fields to reduce the potential for flooding, increased the road access to provide for a parking lot and eliminate the need for retaining walls, and for a better separation of facilities. 4 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm .March 6, 1986 Commission member Kubik stated that the developer was given a month to get together with. staff and he was disappointed that they did not follow through on their agreement to meet. He found it interesting that the developer found time to,-mail a letter to nearby residents to come to.the parks meeting, but did not have time to meet with the staff. Commission member Caponi noted that the Parks & Recreation Commission is trying to safeguard residents from poorly conceived plans. He said, that developers come and go but leave problems they create with the residents. He voiced displeasure with the developer for bringing in.material at such a late hour. He also said, the developer should have had discussions with staff, who could then have included comments and recommendations with the regular commission packet. Chairman Martin stated that the Parks & Recreation Commission was very pleased with the lesser density of .the project. He felt, however, that the park does not fare so well with the current proposal. He dislikes the trail located under the high water elevation mark. He expressed a need for a flat area for play fields and sufficient road frontage-for access which definitely shows that there is a park. Richard Heimkes, a 20 year Eagan resident, was supportive of the lesser density proposal. He felt the present Bur Oak park has been neglected and the residents deserve better. He hoped the City and developer would get together, because the residents need a good park. Mr. & Mrs Charles Diemer prefer the lower density proposal too. Mr. Diener was sorry the developer did not come in to work with the City, but he hopes they will be able to Kork; out a compromise., Mr. L. K. Jones, Hwy 55, has a large tract of land east of the proposed development upon which he has many young apple trees. He wanted a good park in the development, as he was afraid children might decide to use his property for a park and destroy many of the apple trees. Chairman Martin and Tony Caponi both said, the City wants a good park facility so the kids will use it and not trespass elsewhere. Vernon Schaff, Chapel Lane, was, concerned with potential flooding of the pond and questioned what it would be. Director Vras said, that increased amounts of impervious surface will drive up the water level, but' that there is a controlled elevation on the ponds. Mr. Schaaf also said 'the City and developer should work out an agreeable solution so the project could move forward.. Other residents and nearby Inver Grove Heights residents commented on the need for a better park and better play equipment. Ken Briggs, representing the Harstad Co., brought along a park concept plan to the meeting. He reiterated it was not feasible to have a 600' road frontage access, because it would cost the developer too much money. He said the company had been extremely busy the past month and didn't have time to meet with the city staff. 5 Adv.-Parks & Rec. Comm. March 6, 1986 -Chairman Martin reiterated that the Commission likes 'the proposed development. The Commission wants to get the best possible park. The City is not locked into a 600' access and want to get together-with the developer to resolve.'the problem. Commission 'member Bertz agreed and encouraged members-of the audience to let City officials know what they desire for a park. Ken Briggs asked if the City is willing to accept the 85' road frontage access. He also wanted to know what and where are the standards the Commission refers to for park access. He said if the City wouldn't back off the 600' access the higher density project -would -be -built. Chairman Martin said" the City wants the park, but questioned if any in the audience would just as soon forego park and take cash dedication? The consensus was for a park, which is consistent with other city parks. Commission member Masin recalled the neighborhood meeting prior to the park bond referendum. She said .that many residents expressed the-need for a decent park and the Commission is trying to accomplish that. Commission member Ketcham asked if staff could review the status of the S. Delaware Hills preliminary plat to see if it still is a viable project. After additional discussion, Chairman Martin said the developer and staff are to meet, review and come back to the April meeting. Later in the meetings when it was apparent a second March meeting would be necessary, there was discussion and consensus to invite the Harstad Co. to the meeting as a measure of good faith. Director Vraa was directed to contact Mr. Merila and follow up with a letter of invitation with copies to the City council. Staff was directed to compile a file of written documentation and history on the Bur Oaks proposal. Director Vraa will also see if Park Commission members can have some time at the March 11 special_ joint council - Planning Commission meeting. 2. PARK DEDICATION This item was deferred. Later in the meeting the Commission set a special meeting for March 13, 7:00 P.M. 3. PARK SERVICE DISTRICT #21 Landscape Architect/Parks Planner Sullivan reviewed the Deerwood school site. He said additional land is necessary to develop the site as it should be. He noted much of the adjacent property has steep slopes or is otherwise inappropriate for acquisition. He also said that a trail system will be a key factor in the service district. Chairman Martin suggested the additional land might be acquired via dedication. Commission Members agreed that alternatives north of Deerwood were not appropriate, after discussion regarding size, proximity to roads, the new school, etc. Chairman Martin directed staff to review the. feasibility for acquiring an additional four acres needed for a park. Staff should also contact adjacent property owners to see if purchase is a possibility. They should review land to the west to see if it is developable. 6 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm March 6, 1986 NEW BUSINESS - 1. ,.,DEERWOOD FRONTAGE ROAD - NAME SUGGESTIONS The-Park Names Committee met prior to the commission meeting to consider names. Committee Chairman Carroll said several names were discussed and the Committee is submitting two names for Council consideration: Blackhawk Way and Deerwood Way. The two suggestions are to be submitted to the March 19 Council meeting. 2. GOLF NETTING/BATTING CAGE This item was deferred to the-April agenda. 3. WINTER PROGRAM REPORT The report was included in-the packet. Commission member Bertz asked how the temporary buildings were contracted for during the skating seasons. Director Vraa said there is a minimum two-month charge; the, City can then rent in additional two week increments. There was additional discussion about the difficulty in finding warming house attendants. Director Vraa outlined the efforts used to get applicants. George Kubik suggested senior citizens might be interested in the part-time seasonal positions. Commission member Porter moved, Kubik seconded, to expand recruiting efforts for warming house attendants. Staff should also try to link summer-winter jobs, giving preference to those persons already employed in one season. A pay raise could be considered if it might attract qualified applicants. The motion carried. Director Vraa said that Hi view Park skating facilities were poorly attended and bad been for several years. He said there, are skaters during winter vacation and virtually no interest after that. It is used for broomball on Sundays and Mondays and for skating on Friday and Saturday. Commission member Kubik thought City resources should be put to better use. Commission member Porter suggested removing the deteriorating hockey rink and the the warminghouse and leave the lighted skating area for interested skaters. Commission consensus supported his suggestion. Commission member Kubik said- the winter weekend was a well attended fun event. He noted that the largest fish caught was a 1#1 oz. crappie. Chairman Martin enjoyed the tubing activity. The Commission was appreciative of staff efforts and anticipate the winter weekend will be an annual event. PARK DEVELOPMENT 1. SPRING '86 CONSTRUCTION COST ESTIMATES This item was deferred to the special meeting of March 13. 7 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. March 6, 1986 BUR OAKS When . i:t .vas apparent a.'-second 'March meeting would be necessary, Commission membem discussed inviting Harstad Company representatives to discuss their latest concept plan. The Commission felt such an invite would be a measure of good faith; that they do prefer the Bars tad proposed density and feel the park issue-can be resolved. Director Vraa was directed to contact Misters Briggs or Merila and ask them to come. He was to follow up with a formal letter of invitation with copies to go to the Council. Staff was also directed to compile a complete file on the S. Delaware Hills/Burr Oaks proposals including minutes, phone calls and letters. Chairman Martin said, he would contact the Mayor to seek inclusion on the special Council agenda, March 11, for Park & Recreation Commission members. 22. ATHLETIC. SITE - OHMANN UPDATE Director Vraa noted the- forthcoming proposed development for 145 single family homes a.k.a. Fairway Hills. He said, the parcel should generate about 5 acres for park dedication. He outlined three alternatives for Commission consideration: 1. The Commission could consider getting a piece of land adjacent to the 15 acre parcel the City hopes to purchase, and create a 20 acre park. 2. The City could condemn another 15 acres to get the 30 acres necessary for an athletic site. 3. The City could develop 8 of the 15 acres site, (Parcel F) and sell off the rest. Cash dedication would be recommended for Fairway Hills. The athletic site would have to be located elsewhere. Commission members discussed alternatives and decided they were not comfortable with the lack of 'a written commitment from Mrs. Lamond to sell'the 15 acre site to the City. If cash dedication were accepted for Fairway Hills and the purchase fell through, the City would have no parkland for the area. There was concern, too, with an outlay of $135,000 to purchase when the City would-rreceive $63,000 through park dedication. The Commission felt additional acqulsitioa°=was necessary if the land dedication were-recommended for Fairway Hills. Chairman Martin directed staff to pursue land dedication from the proposed development of Fairway Hills and seek an additional 1 1/2 acres when the adjacent parcel comes in-for development. Staff was further directed to contact the owner regarding-the Commission's concern and tactfully withdraw from the intent to purchase, if possible. - Director Vraa reviewed another possible athletic site - an 80 acre parcel just east of the proposed high school. He said, that much of the land is not buildable and the price is $8,500 per acre. He briefly described a triangular shaped site in Eagan/Irver Grove Heights but the Commission rejected it outright as not being suitable. The three possible sites are to be discussed, with a recommendation given, at the April meeting. OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS 1. PROPOSED PARK/SCHOOL SITE This item was deferred to the April meeting. 8 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. -March 6, 1986 2. BROWN PROPERTY - SERVICE SECTION #33 This-.item was deferred to the April meeting. -3. FOUR OAKS TOWNHOUSES (This item was discussed earlier in the meeting, but it is included with other business.) As part of an original agreement with Rosewood Corporation, a tot lot was to be constructed for the townhouses and a $5,000 bond was posted. Dennis Lang, representing Rosewood Corp. stated that the units are all occupied and there are very few children living in the homes. Rosewood Corp. would like to forego the tot lot, get the bond released and maintain the area as green space. Commission member Masin recalled that with a previous such request the Commission wanted a consensus of the homeowners for or against a tot lot. She was not comfortable with a few members speaking on behalf of the entire homeowners membership. She wanted to know if a majority of the homeowners support Rosewood Corporation's request. The Commission directed Mr. Lang and the Association Board to circulate a petition among association members *which would support the release from the tot lot obligation and to return the petition to the Commission for action. Mr. Lang agreed to follow the outlined procedure. 4. HORSE TRAINING ARENA - (This item was discussed earlier in the meeting, but is included with other business.) Sally Beaucbmein was present to request Commission support to develop a horse training arena in Eagan. She said a 150' by' 350', well-drained, strong turf site would be needed to meet international standards for such a facility. Chairman Martin asked if the duo-hockey rink with a removable interior fence could be used. He asked how many people would be interested inusing such a facility. He was concerned with all of the horse manure that would accumulate. Commission'member Kubik asked if Lebanon Hills was available? Sandra Masin asked if actual shows would take place in the practice arena. Chairman Martin directed Ms. Beauchmein to put specifications together for staff to review. She should also contact other possible users of such a facility. The request will be taken up on a future agenda. ADJOURNMENT Commission member Bertz moved, Masin seconded, that the meeting be adjourned. Time of adjournment was 11:38. Dated: /-n - - Ad.isory Parks & ecreation Secretary 9