09/04/1986 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE -
ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMVISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
SEPTEMBER 4, 1986
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission was called to
order by Chairman Martin at 7:20 P.M. The meeting was preceded by a
demonstration of Park Maintenance Equipment by the Park and Maintenance Staff.
and a picnic supper at Northview Athletic Fields. Members present were
Porter, Masin, Ketcham, Bertz, Martin, Thurston, Kubik, Carroll and Caponi.
Commissioner Alt was on vacation. Staff present were: Parks & Recreation
Director, Ken Vraa; Parks Planner/Landscape Architect, Steve Sullivan;
Planner, Jim Sturm; Parks Superintendent, John VonDeLinde; Recreation
Supervisor; Dorothy Peterson, and Paula Sunder and Administrative Assistant,
Liz Witt. Other visitors were present for specific agenda items.
.:AGENDA
Commissioner Masin moved,;-.Kubik seconded, that the agenda be approved as
presented. The motion carried.
MINUTES
August 7, 1986
Commissioner Carroll moved, Thurston seconded the approval of the minutes as
presented.
PRESENTATION
John Rowe and Lee Weich of Dakota County Court Services were presented with a
plaque of appreciation for Community Service work accomplished in Eagan Parks.
Park Superintendent John VonDeLinde explained that the program started in June
16, involving youths participating in the Court Services Restitution program.
Mr. VonDeLinde noted that the youths put in approximately 3000 hours. They
repainted 9 hockey rinks, brushed out the high line and Blackhawk trails and
planted 25 trees at Woodhaven Park. Mr. Rowe said that the youngsters were
not overly enthusiastic at the beginning but felt that they had accomplished a
great deal when the project was completed. They earned $7000 for debt
repayment.
Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
OLD BUSINESS
1. Mooney Lake - Patrick Eagan Park: Storm Sewer Project 473
Commissioner Caponi, though ill, attended the meeting specifically to discuss
this item. Therefore, it was moved up on the agenda so Commissioner Caponi
could participate in the discussion and leave.
Parks & Recreation Director Vraa distributed a hand out prepared by Bonestroo
et al, Engineering Consultants. The report outlined three additional
alternatives to the original Project proposal:
Alternate I: would construct a gravity storm outlet to the east within park
property and Berry Ridge Road R/W.
Alternate II: would construct a lift station and force main in the
approximate alignment as Alternate I.
Alternate III: would construct a lift station and force main within and
through Chatterton Ponds to Pond JP-36. There would also be a gravity line
form Pond JP-36 to Pond JP-37 and to the existing trunk storm sewer located
about one-quarter mile to the east. The cost of Alternate III is almost 50%
higher than I & II, not including acquisition costs.
Commissioner Caponi felt the report was inadequate and that more information
was needed. He wanted more details and written in a form that's
understandable to the lay person. He suggested the commission recommend that
Council continue the item until more information is received and reviewed. He
continued, indicating the Commission should consider a stream into the park,
utilizing storm water. Mr. Caponi further discussed his thoughts, benefits,
as well as concerns, relative to the current proposal.
Chairman Martin suggested that if the Commission is interested in having a
stream, perhaps there should be a pump to continually recycle water. He
pointed out that storm generated water will only flow about 44 days a year,
based on engineering information. This averages out to about 4.5 days a month
and is it worth it in the area of the park.
Commissioner Caponi responded that the water flow from streams can be
regulated to flow more than those 44 days. He felt very strongly that the
City should not lose the opportunity to channel storm water via an open stream
which could be regulated by pumps. Commissioner Porter suggested the City opt
for an above ground storm sewer line and install a pump later, as needed.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
Commissioner Caponi requested that action be delayed on the project to allow
the Commission more time to study and to coordinate their effort with
engineering. He said he has talked with several residents who are interested
in a stream. He felt there is a more creative way to handle the project
which-itould be more aesthetically pleasing than the alternatives already
suggested. Commissioner Kubik concurred and suggested that other options be
explored.
Commissioner Bertz said she was not in favor of a stream. She felt it could
be a dangerous amenity because the swift flowing water could attract small
children. She wondered why the commission was discussing this issue at this
point in time. She didn't recall that an open stream has been part of the
park systems study or a part of any park plan. -
Chairman Martin noted there is a potential loss of many trees if some
corrective action isn't taken soon. He suggested that the commission study
where, within the park system, a stream might be appropriate. He thought that
engineering should be allowed to proceed and get the water level down and the
trail uncovered. At a future date the commission could look at a
recirculating system.
In response to a question, Director Vraa said the water has been high for over
a year, and at this time, has not been viewed as a threat to the trees. The
damage has already been done. He said that engineering is planning ahead -
that Pilot Knob Road is being upgraded, Chatterton Ponds is being developed
and all of this will cause the Mooney Lake level to go up further.
Engineering suggested the corrections be made now, to get the lake level on
Pond JP-8 down and make it amore pond-like setting.
Commissioner Caponi reiterated that the Commission should have more input into
engineering planning. He said the Commission has concerns about the park and
pond that the engineers have not addressed. He felt the water level at Mooney
Lake is not at a critical stage. He wanted a joint study undertaken with
parks and engineering to resolve the water flow, the high water elevation and
the submerged trail. He did not want to be snowballed into the project
without parks input.
Commissioner Martin said the commission can express their concerns in this
regard but the project should not be halted until such, a study is completed.
Commissioner Masin questioned why all of the ponds are tied to the City
drainage sytstem. She thought that some of the ponds, particularly in the
parks, should be left out of the overall system.
There was additional discussion and a number of questions posed, some of which
were to be referred to the Engineering Department.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
Director Vraa said, in response to a question, that the costs involved in
constructing a stream would have to be determined. He thought that as long as
engineering was flexible on the depth of the storm drainage line, they could
have it flow above ground for a few years and see what happens. That would
give the parks department time to design an appropriate plan. Mr. Vraa
indicated the Commission take action because the water level could soon be a
problem and the residents will demand relief in the form of a storm sewer
system.
On a motion by Martin, seconded by Caponi, the Commission recommended that
staff work with engineering regarding the stated concerns at Moony Lake,
Patrick Eagan Park and Pond JP-8. There should be a temporary solutuion to
lower the level of Mooney Lake. Any construction that affects Patrick Eagan
Park should have park staff and Commission input and review. The motion
carried unanamously.
Parks Director Vraa restated several questions to insure that he understood
the Commissions concerns; the county's share of the costs, the cost of an
overland stream, the possibility of a temporary overland pipe and the high
water level at Mooney Lake and Pond JP-8. Commissioner Kubik expressed
concerns with the piecemeal approach to the drainage system. He said many of
Eagan's parks are impacted by water runoff, and volunteered to be a member of
a joint committee to study the whole problem if such a committee is formed.
Chairman Martin suggested that Public Works Director Tom Colbert attend the
October Commission meeting to discuss•Eagan's overall drainage system.
3. 1987 LAWCON/L.C.M.R. Grant Ranking/Thomas Lake Park
Parks Superintendent John VonDeLinde announced that the grant application for
Thomas Lake Community Park was ranked #1 in the Metro Area and for Northview
Athlectic Fields was ranked #2. Because only one grant can be accepted he
recommended the City prepare a final application for the Thomas Lake Grant and
decline the $45,000 for Northview. Mr. Vondelinde said that the grant
breakdown is a follows: $225,000 - LAWCON share; $105,000 - LCMR share and
$120,000 - City share.
Mr. Vondelinde noted the City could submit traditional applications again next
year for Blackhawk or Patrick Eagan Park. He did not think there would be an
athletic site category as was the case this year. The commission was very
pleased with staffs' efforts and commended staff on the high rankings
received.
4. Park Dedication - Review of draft revisions
Director Vraa had sent out the draft revisions by separate mailing and
requested that comments be given to him within two weeks. The final draft
will be on the October agenda. Chairman Martin indicated that it appeared the
draft followed very closely what the Commission and Council had discussed. He
looked forward to its completion soon for recommendation to the council.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
OTHER BUSINESS
1. Summer Recreation Report
This item was moved up on the agenda to accommodate the recreation staff.
Recreation supervisor, Dorothy Peterson, reported on a successful summer. She
said that the theater project was particularly well received and the
participants were very enthusiastic. Their production was included in the
"Evening in the Park", which 100 to 200 people attended each time. Ms.
Peterson reported that the cooperative tennis program with Eagandale Club went
quite well despite some glitches. She felt the standarization of instruction
was good. There were 2000 participants in softball, but she reported that
next year the City will be able to open up a bit on enrollment restrictions
when Rahn park is available. Fall registrations will be taken on-the
computer, and the calendar will be coming out in November.
Paula Sunder, Recreation Supervisor, said there were over 800 Regular
participants in summer programs for youngsters. She had a staff of 24, of
which 12 were repeats. All water related activities were well received. Ms.
Sunder made some changes in the T-ball program to make it a more positive
experience for the youngsters. There were 115 three-twelve year olds in the
dance program and 105 in tiny tots. The play wagon was successful as it is
every year. Ms. Sunder said the department might try after-school-in-the-park
for two months. They are also thinking about Friday night co-ed volleyball
and other special events.
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
1. Fairway Hills.- 2nd Addition
Planner Sturm described the proposal which has 60 lots on a 25 acre site. He
recommended that park area remain as shown. The Planning Commission had
approved the proposal with some conditions. Commissioner Bertz mover, Ketcham
seconded, the recommendation of cash dedication with the retention of the park
plan. All voted in favor.
2. Sunpointe - 1st Addition
This proposal calls for 90 townhouses on 10.5 acres, resulting in 9 units per
acre. It is part of the Eagan Hills West P.O.D. Planner Sturm noted that the
Planning Commission was concerned about how the rest of the site was to be
developed. Current plans call for more townhouses. He suggested the
Commission review having a trail along the north side of Diffley Road.
Commissioner Carroll moved, seconded by Kubik, to recommend trail dedication
along the north side of Diffley Road and that the developer consider having a
tot lot. That motion carried. A tot lot will be a requirement if more
townhouses are constructed on the adjoining acreage. The commission wants to
review again if there are any changes from the current proposal.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
3. Johnny Cake Ridge - 5th Addition
The proposal is for three four-plex units in Johnny Cake Ridge. The Planning
Commission denied the application because of poor soil conditions and the fact
that adjoining neighbors were told the area was to be an open space.
Commissioner Thurston moved, Bertz seconded, the recommendation to accept cash
dedication. The motion carried.
4. Brittany - 10th Addition -
Planner Sturm reported some indecision regarding this proposal. The day of the
Planning Commission meeting, the developer stated he would only develop half
of the site, and then later, he said he was withdrawing all together. Mr.
Strum expects the developer to continue on with the application. The entire
parcel would yield a 9 acre park, and the park is sorely needed. Director
Vraa agreed and said that trailways on Thomas Lake Road, Cliff Road and a
short section on Covington Road Extension should also be required. He
continued, indicating the current residential development in the park service
section and the need to aquire the remaining of the parks parcel.
Commissioner Carroll wondered if the park configuration should be changed.
Mr. Vraa said the topography and existing trailway make the configuration, as
shown, the preferred one. After additional discussion regarding the need to
have the parks final dedication as soon as possible, on a motion by Ketcham,
seconded by Porter, the commission recommended the land dedication be given up
front and in total with any first phase development. There should also be
trail dedication on Cliff and Thomas Lake Road and a sidewalk on Covington.
Cash dedication will be recommended for future development beyonds the park
land requirement. All voted in favor.
5. Town Centre 100 - 3rd Addition -
This is a housekeeping item to -accept the three acre strip to the northern
border of O'Leary Park. Commissioner Bertz moved, Carroll seconded, to
recommend acceptance of the three acres. The motion Carried.
6. September Agenda
Planner Sturm stated there are some return proposals; a 30 acre commerical
development which will include a restaurant, as well as a ten story apartment
building. Splashland has resolved it's problems and will be in for a final
plat. Commissioner Kubik commented that town Centre '100 does not present a
pleasing picture for visitors passing through the city. The Park & Ride is
the most visible eyesore; the colors at Rainbow Foods clash with the rest of
the mall and he wondered if the landscape policy was being observed. There
was criticism of the overlarge parking lot for Rainbow Foods, and Planner
Sturm said that was Rainbow's policy, which exceeded City parking
requirements. He added that state law now says that any venture with over
1000 parking stalls must have a state review. Commissioners Kubik and Martin
thought the results of the landscape policy on the 1986 developments should be
reviewed in March of 1987. The Commission would like to see if the policy is
operating as intended.
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Adv.Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
NEW BUSINESS
1. Formation of Study Committee - Community Center
Parks & Recreation Director Vraa said he has had inquiries over the months as
to when a Commumnity Center will come into being. Previously, the excuse had
been that the park development took precedence, but that is no longer the
case. He suggested the Commission now consider a study group review a
community center project. The committee would visit other communities, and
have "experts" in to give testimony, etc. Chairman Martin suggested the
Advisory Commission be the study committee for the time being and perhaps
invite interested, knowledgeable people as additional members. Commissioner
Masin thought the committee should be independent of the Commission with
commision members free to attend if they so desire. Chairman Martin wanted a
special meeting held this fall to decide the direction to be taken and who
should be involved. Commisssioners Bertz and Thurston wanted a log kept of
requests for community programs and that they were for, and all of the
information should be ready for the fall meeting. Commissioner Kubik moved,
Thurston seconded, the start up of a special committee to study the need for
a Community Center. The Parks & Recreation Commission will comprise the
initial committee with others to be added as needed. A Planning session will
be held Tuesday, September 30 from 6:30 to 9:30 p.m. All voted in favor.
PARKS DEVELOPMENT
1. Status Report - Development Projects
Parks Planner Steve Sullivan reported there are now seven active contracts
plus another one to become active next week. The ballfield lighting is done,
five parks have been final graded and most have been seeded. The parking lots
are in. The fencing contract has been let. The parking lot lighting at Trapp
Farm Park, Goat hill and Rahn parks will be in this year. There is a total of
over $1 Million dollars under contract.
OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS(Continued)
2. The Annual Picnic will be September 12, at Trapp Farm Park.
3. Metro Art Grant Application
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
Eagan's application ranked high but the fund ran out of money so the City was
not successful in its application for $3,000.
It. October Agenda Items
5. Roundtable
(A) Director Vraa said the final draft of the park dedication policy will be
on the agenda.
(B) He asked Commissioners if they would be interested in a fall "volunteer
recognition" rather than in the spring as it has been. There was a consensus
for a fall City tour.
(C) Mr. Vraa announced the City Council approved the proposed fee structure
for a park shelter building with the additional dollars collected to be put
in the park improvement fund. I -
(D) He noted there have been requests from Burnsville people for Eagan
facilities because Burnsville now charges for its facilities. He suggested
the commission have some policy discussion to see what direction Eagan should
take.
(E) Mr. Vraa stated that a River Hills resident had requested that the open
space under the power lines be maintained for needed park space in River
Hills. He reminded the Commision that* they had earlier agreed not to maintain
that strip and that River Hills and Cinnamon Park, while small, is adequate
and there are other facilities nearby. The commission agreed.
(F) Director Vraa is redoing the bond budget and will bring the Commission up
to date as to where the city is,-where it has been and to discuss any changes,
if desired. He noted that some costs have been appreciably higher while
others have been very close to the actual figure.
(G) Commissioner Kubik commented on the great amount of use the archery range
has had at Walnut Hill Park. He thought the City should consider another one
soon.
(H) Commissioner Carroll says that Goat hill Park on the Lexingrton side has
vegetation which needs to be trimmed back because of poor sight lines.
(I) Commissioner Bertz noted that cars were parked on both sides of the road
at Northview Park even though one side is posted. She also commented that
the correction work at Cedar Pond has left dirt piles which should be removed.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
September 4, 1986
(J) Chairman Martin asked the Commission to include the City Code review on
the October agenda. Commissioners are to get their comments to Director Vraa
in time for inclusion in the October packet.
(K) Commissioner Masin asked staff to send a thank you note to the
maintenance crew for the equipment demonstration under Chairman Martin's
signature. The Commission also thanked staff for the great dinner.
Commissioner Kubik requested that a letter be sent to the Dakota County
Commissioners regarding the Department's positive feelings towards the
community service project.
ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Kubik moved, Thurston seconded, that the meeting be adjourned.
Time of adjournment was 11:00 p.m.
• r-~
Dated: ~ -o.,+' ~
Adv sort' Parks & Recreation Secretary
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