10/02/1986 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF
THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
OCTOBER 2, 1986
The regular meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order
by Chairman Martin at 7:05 P.M. Members present were: Masin, Ketcham, Bertz,
Martin, Thurston, Kubik, Carroll, Caponi,' and Alt. Commission member Porter
indicated he was unable to attend. Staff present were: Director of Parks and
Recreation Ken Vraa; Parks Planner/Landscape Architect Stephen Sullivan,
Planner Jim Sturm; Recreation Supervisor Dorothy Peterson. Other visitors
were present for specific agenda items. _ AGENDA
Commissioner Alt moved, seconded by Carroll, that the agenda be approved as
amended and presented. The motion carried.
MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 4TH, 1986
Chairman Martin indicated.-that members had not received the minutes in time
for approval and deferred the item until the November Commission meeting. All
members agreed.
1. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
Jim Sturm of the Planning Department explained the revision to the Lexington
Hills - lst Addition. He said that the Commission had previously reviewed the
plat prior to changes made at the Planning Commission. A motion by Mr.
Caponi, seconded by Alt, that the Advisory Commission recommend that this plat
be responsible for a trailway on Lexington Avenue through the extent of the
plat, and that the developer provide for a tot-lot in the location shown. All
voted in favor.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
October 2, 1986
2. CARBONI'S FIRST ADDITION
Planner Sturm reviewed the proposal for Carboni's 1st Addition. There was
discussion by the Advisory Commission concerning extent of a cash dedication
requirement. It was recommended by Carroll, seconded by Thurston, that the
newly created area be responsible for a cash dedication requirement at four
(.01) cents a square foot. All members voted in favor..
3. POND VIEW PUD
The proposal calls for a planned unit development for an area west of Pilot
Knob Road. Planner Sturm reviewed the proposal and the mix usage proposed,
including the apartment units, resturant, and commercial office buildings.
Commission member Carroll indicated that it would be better for the
apartment unit to build around the lake, rather than their current
configuration. Member Thurston expressed concern for pond and erosion
control. She felt this was an important factor due to the proximity of the
apartments to the pond area. Chairman Martin commented on the amount of
blacktop and lack of apparent landscaping in the Concept Plan. After
additional discussion, it was moved by Thurston, seconded by Caponi, with all
members voting in favor, that the planned unit development be responsible for
a trailway along Pilot Knob Road, through the extent of the P.U.D. Further,
that the Commission review each lot at time of plat application for specific
parks dedication requirements.
It. BEAUTIFUL SAVIOUR LUTHERAN CHURCH
Jim Sturm explained the plating of the church property simultaneously with
construction activity. Chairman Martin indicated past practice by the
Advisory Commission relative to cash dedication requirements for church
property. A motion by Martin, seconded by Carroll, cash dedication
requirment is waived until such time as the church property shall change land
use. All members voted in favor.
5. ROY SPANDEE -LOT SPLIT
A motion by Carolyn Thurston, and seconded by George Kubik, recommended that
the newly created lot be subject to a cash dedication requirement for
residental units for the newly created lot.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
October 2, 1986
6. DAKOTA ELECTRIC - WAIVER OF PLAT - ELECTRICAL SUB-STATION
Planner Sturm indicated the needs of Dakota Electric for an additional sub-
station at the east edge of the City. Dakota Electric had worked with City
staff identifying several possible locations; this was selected as the most
suitable'and unobtrusive. There was discussion by the Advisory Commission
concerning the _requirements for a cash dedication, that they be consistent
with policy established with cash :.dedication requirements for. Northwestern
Bell. Motion was made -and..seconded to require a cash dedication for the sub-
station at .04 a square-foot.
Planner Sturm went over proposals being considered for the month of November.
OLD BUSINESS -PARKS DEDICATION REVISIONS
Chairman Martin indicated that he wanted the Advisory Commission to review the
proposed Parks Dedication Revisions carefully, even though it had previously
reviewed the change in September.
Department of Parks and Recreation Director, Ken Vraa reviewed the purpose and
intent of the revisions, to relate and correlate the ordinance and standards
established to ensure a relationship between density and land/cash dedication
requirements.
The Director of Parks and Recreation then went through each section, and
revisions made, noting changes from the previous policy. It was indicated
that residential parkland dedication calculation used 1985 household census,
and that twelve (12) acres per thousand population was the established
standard for neighborhood development.
In response to a question the director responded that; revision to a census in
1990 may require another revision in the Parks Dedication Policy at that time.
Chairman Martin suggested that Paragraph 3, Item G, be changed to Commission,
rather than Eagan City Council. Members were in agreement for this revision.
Members then discussed Paragraphs H and G indicating that these two paragraphs
should be reversed for clarification. Tom Ketcham indicated that he was in
agreement with Chairman Martin, that he felt the two items were contradictory
and should be reversed, in order. Chairman Martin said the policy might
include certain zoning requirements providing for One-hundred (100) square
feet of open space, per unit for multiple residential development. Also,
discussed was the requirement for a tot-lot; that should be included in
Paragraph H. Ms. Bertz felt that the tot-lot was not contrary to Item G,
because tot-lots are not considered a significant item. After further
discussion, Commission members agreed that Paragraph G and H shall be changed
in order of presentation. Further, that Item H, strike the words
"particularly pre-school children" to be substituted for "such as tot-lots and
open play space".
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
October 2, 1986
Chairman Martin suggested, words "per residential unit" be included after
"cash equivalences". Al.1 members indicated their agreement. Director of
Parks and Recreation Vraa indicated that the Commercial and Industrial
Dedication.Requirements remain as originally written in 1983. Roger Martin
felt that the City should consider reviewing this for an increase, if not
now, at a later date. He contended that the four cents (.04) a square foot is
less than the actual land value increase- over the last several years, and the
need to keep current. with inflationary-values. Dick Car roll. indicated
a eement. He liked the
gr gradual steps of increase. He noted that there.. had
not been-an increase. since. 1983. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa,
indicated that he felt that four cents (.04) a square foot was an adequate
figure, and the Commission may wish to consider this in the future. After
considerable discussion, it was moved, seconded, and all approved the four
cents per square foot of net land area be raised to four-point four (4.4)
cents per square foot.
Commission then discussed Paragraph 6, sub-paragraphs B and D. It was
suggested that a new paragraph be drafted to include a statement that
additional trails may be required as connections to other trail links. After
additional discussions, members-were agreed that this be included as-Paragraph
C.
There being no further revisions to the proposed Parks Dedication policy,
Chairman Martin asked for a motion to refer this draft to the City Council for
feedback, and if necessary final revisions before final approval by Commission
and Council. A motion by Bertz, seconded by Carroll, with all members voting
in favor; the document is to be submitted to the City Council as a draft
document.
CINNAMON/RIVER HILLS - LETTER OF COMPLAINT
Chairman Martin noted that Mary Teske recently arrived concerning Item F-1
under "New Business". Commission agreed to hear this item at this time.
Mary Teske shared her letter, dated September 8th, 1986, with a concern for
flooding of a dry pond area, within the parkland and beneath the NSP
powerline. She indicated that the residents are very concerned for their
lives and property due to the high water level, that over flowed and spilled
into the homes of the Riverhills 9 area. She indicated that the children
needed park space, because there was so little room in the Cinnamon Ridge
Development with 600 units. She felt that the higher density with smaller
yards, meant that this area should be utilized for play space. After
additional comments by Mrs. Teske, the Commission had several questions
regarding the park and pond. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa responded,
the pond was to have been constructed as a dry pond, and that after rain
storms had subsided, this area is to have drained down. Mary Teske
indicated that the pond has never functioned as initially intended, even
though five years have now gone by. Chairman Martin indicated that he recalls
that this parcel was never to have been classified as "active parkland", but
as a ponding area and open space. Other members agreed, and it was their
recollection that the Commission recommended to the City Council that this
area not be included as part of the parkland dedication. Director Vraa
indicated that the parkland has been held in a "preservation status", with
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Adv.Parks & Rec. Comm.
Oct. 2, 1986
ponding area included. Chairman Kubik expressed his concern for the loss of
trees and damage to, property and erosion, as well as the water nuisance
problem, which concerned him. He felt the problem should be resolved.
Chairman Martin felt ,the problem was that of the Engineering Department,
rather than Parks. Also, at issue was - if the problem is corrected, will
_.-facilities be placed-in the parcel? It would be too wet to mow! and certainly
unsuitable for playgrounds or, ballfields. Tom Ketcham indicated that there
was an obviou.s- problem,which. was - in need.. of a solution. Roger Martin
indicated that the water was obviously much higher than was approved by the
Engineering Department and therefore should be reviewed. Ketcham moved, that
Staff -send a memorandum to the City Council and City Engineer with the letter
from Mary attached, sharing. the Commission's concern for the problems and a
-need for a solution to correct it. The motion was seconded by Bertz, with
all members voting in favor. Members suggested that a copy be sent to the
consulting engineers. .
BLACKHAWK PARK
Director of Parks and Recreation explained that Ed Dunn, owner and developer
of Blackhawk Park P.U.D., has again expressed interest in selling his property
adjacent to Blackhawk Park to the .City for expansion of Blackhawk Park. The
director continued by indicating that Mr. Dunn has - been in contact with a
major buyer, who is interested in purchasing all of Mr. Dunn's property that
is in the City of Eagan, and adjacent areas. He further indicated that it was
Mr. Dunn's opinion, which the director concurred with, that a future owner
would be less likely to sell any portion of the property for inclusion as part
of Blackhawk Park, and certainly not at the price that Mr. Dunn was offering.
There was considerable discussion by the Advisory Commission with all in
agreement that the Commission had spent a considerable amount of time
reviewing the Blackhawk Park issue and the necessity of purchasing additional
park property. In response-to a question, the director indicated that
existing P.U.D. will be provided for approximately fourteen (14) acres of
parks dedication. Member Thurston asked if the $22,000 per acre purchase
price could be extended over a four or five year period, if the City did not
buy more than ten or twelve acres. Commission member Kubik questioned the
amount parks dedication fees raised in 1986. He said, the fees could be
used for this additional acquisition. Carolyn Thurston questioned grant
funding availability. Chairman Martin questioned what the optimum
acquisition would be? Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa responded, that
preservation of the shoreline of sufficient size, for use and protection was
essential.. Secondlyy that additional land east of the park should be
acquired, because of it's superior quality. He also indicated the Commission
shall acquire the parcel on the north side of the lake, owned by K. Waldron.
There was additional questioning and discussion by the Advisory Commission
regarding priority and amount of property that might be acquired and funded.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
October 2, 1986
Martin expressed his concern regarding access to the park, versus shoreline or
other property. Director Vraa suggested that the Commission consider no less
than ten (10) acres acquisition. That had been proposed in the grant
.application in 1985. ,Carolyn Thurston,asked if.grant.money became, available,
could we use it. Director Vraa replied, yes, it could be utilized, but maybe
.too late in the process, due. to the apparent speed with which the purchaser
was pursuing the property from Mr. Dunn. Members Kubik and Carroll suggested
that access would not be a. problem, because if it. was not given willingly,
condemnation could- be considered. Member'Thurston asked for further
definition of alignment of the property, perhaps for the Commission to make an
on-site tour. After additional discussion, it was agreed that 'staff prepare
an overall alternatives for land acquisition, beginning with at least a ten
(10) acre parcel. Additional increments of five (5) acres should also be
considered. The meeting was set for Monday, 5 o'clock P.M. Members to meet
at the Deerwood Drive access.
MOONEY LAfE - PROJECT 473
Director of Parks and Recreation provided a Status Report on Project 473; The
outlet of Mooney Lake to Patrick Eagan Park. He indicated that he had written
a letter to Engineer, Mark Hanson, stating that the Advisory Commission
wished to review alignment and method by which storm water would pass through
Patrick Eagan Park, and impact the pond area.
NEW BUSINESS - LONG RANGE PLANNING
Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, introduced the necessity of long
range planning, and in this case the creation of a Cultural Art Center. Mr.
Vraa indicated that there were twenty (20) acres of property adjacent to
Patrick Eagan Park that is owned by Mr. Caponi, which may make a suitable site
for such a center. Mr. Caponi previously indicated his desire for the City to
acquire this parcel for such designated use. Mr. Caponi indicated he would
excuse himself from the meeting, in order that the Commission members could
discuss this item. Members requested he stay, and answer several questions
regarding the intentions. Mr. Caponi responded to several questions regarding
the parcel and his intented uses and what might be envisioned as a "Cultural
Art Center". He indicated that he had two options regarding the property.
His first option is to pursue a dream, which would serve the community as the
original purpose in purchasing the property. Mr. Caponi continued the brief
explanations, saying the last option opened to him is to sell the parcel for
development. Carolyn Thurston indicated that this was an exciting idea, but
needs more information concerning the proposal. Sandy Bertz questioned if a
purchase price has been discussed. It was indicated that "the how to" had not
yet been determined pending determination of Commission and Council interest
levels. Member Kubik made a motion to direct staff to explore the concept
with additional information and alteratives for funding and costs to be
provided. Seconded by Sandy Masin, with all members voting in favor.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
October 2, 1986
WATER QUALITY REPORT
Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa distributed a memorandum from Tom
Colbert, Director of Public Works on the status of the Water Quality
Management Plan. Director Vraa indicated the City is progressing with an
inventory.now being taken of all land areas. He felt there was sufficient
opportunities for the Commission for reviewal of comment on the Management
Plan. Roger Martin stated that this was not what he had Intended, and was
more interested in the Drainage Systems Plan. _He felt the City was not
showing sufficient concern with flooding of the ponds, particularly in park
areas, which were destroying significant vegetation. He noted that Trapp Farm
Park and Schwanze Lake was a perfect example of this. Director Vraa responded
by indicating that storm sewer projects are seen as "unnecessary", until a
problem occurs, and then it is too late. Roger indicated that he was in
disagreement, questioning "when will the City learn to plan ahead"? He felt
the City needed to identify lakes with existing outlets, to rivers, and that
if lakes are in parks; we must insist upon an outlet before water is allowed
in to prevent any type of flooding. He felt the City was bending over
backwards for the sake of the developer, and not for the people. We need to
slow the process down. We are not controlling erosion and impacts on lake
quality; we are moving to fast. Sandy Masin questioned whether Tom Colbert
was responsible for all of these issues. After further discussion, -Roger
Martin made a motion to ask Mr. Colbert to come a meeting to respond to some
specific questions in regard to the Storm Water Plan. He was concerned
primarily within ponds and lakes with existing and proposed park areas, and
what the management plan is if development occurs. Would there be significant
impact on vegetation within each of the park areas? Sandy Masin seconded,
with all members voting in favor.
COACHES TRAINING - NATIONAL YOUTH SPORTS COACHES ASSOCIATION
Director Vraa distributed a memorandum regarding Parks and Recreation
Department's affiliation with The National Youth Sports Coaches Association
through the Minnesota Parks and Recreation Association. He indicated that the
department could become an affiliate chapter at no cost, which would allow it
to provide for a coaches training and certification program. Staff members
Dorothy Peterson and Paula Sunder are already certified to teach the program.
Several questions were asked of Dorothy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor
regarding the program. Members expressed positive support for the program,
which was considered long overdue. Motion by Kubik, seconded by Thurston,
motioned to have the Parks and Recreation Department become an affiliate
chapter through MRPA, of the National Youth Sports Coaches Association be
approved. All members voted in favor.
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Adv. Parks & Rea. Comm.
October 2, 1986
PARKS DEVELOPMENT
Parks Planner/Landscape Architect, Steve Sullivan updated the Commission on
the various development projects. He identified five areas in which the
contracts required modification-and would cost the City additional dollars.
This included the addition of. bituminous and concrete curb and gutter work at
Blue Cross/Blue Shield Park at Blackhawk Road, changing the stain at the
psvvillion, soil problem at'Blue Cross/Blue Shield Park, extention of concrete
sidewalk at the park shelter buildings, and change of the interior surface at
the shelter building deleting a tectum material in favor of full cedar
siding. Commission asked several questions regarding these changes and the
proposed change for Trapp Farm Park pavillion. This included a retaining wall
between the proposed trail and the shelter building.- In response to a
question, Mr. Sullivan explained that while it had always been envisioned that
there would be a small retaining wall, the scope of it has grown as a result
of the actual placement of the building. Placing the building at a higher
elevation would have reduced or minimized the retaining wall as originally
intended, but it would have created unnatural grade between the building and
the lake. -
2: Project Priorities - 1987
Director of Parks and Recreation introduced this issue, indicating the
importance of defining the 1987 construction priorities. Members asked that
this item be deferred until the next meeting in November. Director indicated
that because of the necessity of doing some necessary and crucial work this
fall, the Commission at least must determine the construction priorities. Each
Park discussed, the design and construction sites proposed, indicating the
rationale for each of those listed. Director of Parks and Recreation
indicated that Thomas Lake Park must be included as a top priority, because of
the LCMR/LAWCON Grant. It was indicated that Carnelian and O'Leary already
had a Concept Plan prepared and those two parks also seem logical. Sandy
Bertz also indicated that Lakeside Park had a Concept Plan and could be
included in that list. After additional discussions, it was the conclusion of
the Advisory Commission that Thomas Lake, Carnelian, O'Leary and Lakeside
Parks should be the construction projects for 1987. Tennis court
construction, hockey rink, and lighting contracts should also be let for those
parks listed in the memorandum. After- additional discussion, Carolyn Thurston
moved, seconded with all members voting in favor, that this item be deferred
until the meeting on Monday, October 6th for finalization.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
October 2, 1986
DESIGN REVIEW - SUN SHELTERS/WARMING HOUSES
-Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa viewed the sketch plans for the - warming
house facilities. He indicated that the exterior design was similiar to that
now being used in the current_eonstruction programs, but that the interior be
very utilitarian, utilizing plywood. The heating system would be electrical,
-thus-avoiding the additional cost and-concerns of bringing in gas or-propane.
.Roger Martin.queationed; the economics of__using this method. He indicated that
over the long run usage would be cheaper than costs associated with propane
or gas utility installations. The director went on to explain the type of
construction, flexibility of window and door locations, etc.
-The director said, that the. main issue and direction required from the
.Advisor Commision concerned whether there should be handicapped facilities or
not. He stated that building codes required structures over 2,000 square feet
be handicap accessible. If there is to be handicapped restrooms, this would
require a larger space area and the provisions for ventilation, heating, and
wash facilities. This would thus create significant cost additions not
planned for. There was discussion as to whether these facilities would be
.necessary, inasmuch as these buildings would be used a relatively short period
of time. Ir response to a question, Director Vraa responded that potentially
there would be as many as eight of these in the City and sited Well Site Park,
as a typical example of where they would be installed. Director of Parks and
Recreation Vraa went on to explain. the other alternatives of using satellite
facilities. The one drawback was that they have strictly exterior access, not
interior. Sheltered by a .wing wall the satellite would be covered on three
sides and not be visible- from the surrounding neighborhoods. Commission
members agreed that this is the most flexible design. Roger Martin stated
that he felt that at least two of the facilities should be designed as a total
handicapped accessibility. It was the concensus of the Commission that this
seemed to be a middle ground approach between providing for handicapped
accessibility at higher use locations. Commission member Thurston expressed
approval of the design, indicating that it seemed to be flexible construction
use, and offering an attractive outside appearance for the neighborhood areas,
simple, durable interior, and hopefully, cost effective. After further
discussion, Director Vraa indicated that he felt the Commission was in
agreement and he would proceed with further directions to the architects to
determine cost estimating.
The Commission then discussed sun shelters. A model was prepared by the
architects, which the Director of Parks and Recreation distributed. Member
Caponi indicated his preference for a particular roof design, stating that it
was more interesting and could be oriented easily to become an inviting
facility. After additional explanation by the Director of Parks and
Recreation, Commission members approved of the design concept for further
refinement and cost estimating.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
October 2, 1986
OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS
Chairman Martin asked. the director to briefly review the Commission on the
-remaining agenda itemsf due to the late hour. The director reviewed a letter
from the _residents.concerning_the Brittany 10th Addition, the building permit
activities, and the_Department of Recreation'_s planned group cable
productions. He indicated, that _the Staff would perhaps have a one-half hour
show, possibly beginning in November or early December.
There was also discussion about changing in the fee structure relative to
tennis courts, and ballfields. Commission members indicated that they would
prefer not to charge fees for these reservations for these facilities, but
choose to monitor it to determine if it was necessary.
Mr. Martin said, he would like the Park Naming Committee to meet and come up
with official names for some of the recent park acquisitions.
There being no further items, a motion by Carroll, seconded by Thurston, the
meeting was adjourned at 11:32.
Dated , 'Advisory Parks and Recreation Secretary
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