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10/02/1986 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA OCTOBER 2, 1986 The regular meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order by Chairman Martin at 7:05 P.M. Members present were: Masin, Ketcham, Bertz, Martin, Thurston, Kubik, Carroll, Caponi,' and Alt. Commission member Porter indicated he was unable to attend. Staff present were: Director of Parks and Recreation Ken Vraa; Parks Planner/Landscape Architect Stephen Sullivan, Planner Jim Sturm; Recreation Supervisor Dorothy Peterson. Other visitors were present for specific agenda items. _ AGENDA Commissioner Alt moved, seconded by Carroll, that the agenda be approved as amended and presented. The motion carried. MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 4TH, 1986 Chairman Martin indicated.-that members had not received the minutes in time for approval and deferred the item until the November Commission meeting. All members agreed. 1. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS Jim Sturm of the Planning Department explained the revision to the Lexington Hills - lst Addition. He said that the Commission had previously reviewed the plat prior to changes made at the Planning Commission. A motion by Mr. Caponi, seconded by Alt, that the Advisory Commission recommend that this plat be responsible for a trailway on Lexington Avenue through the extent of the plat, and that the developer provide for a tot-lot in the location shown. All voted in favor. 1 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. October 2, 1986 2. CARBONI'S FIRST ADDITION Planner Sturm reviewed the proposal for Carboni's 1st Addition. There was discussion by the Advisory Commission concerning extent of a cash dedication requirement. It was recommended by Carroll, seconded by Thurston, that the newly created area be responsible for a cash dedication requirement at four (.01) cents a square foot. All members voted in favor.. 3. POND VIEW PUD The proposal calls for a planned unit development for an area west of Pilot Knob Road. Planner Sturm reviewed the proposal and the mix usage proposed, including the apartment units, resturant, and commercial office buildings. Commission member Carroll indicated that it would be better for the apartment unit to build around the lake, rather than their current configuration. Member Thurston expressed concern for pond and erosion control. She felt this was an important factor due to the proximity of the apartments to the pond area. Chairman Martin commented on the amount of blacktop and lack of apparent landscaping in the Concept Plan. After additional discussion, it was moved by Thurston, seconded by Caponi, with all members voting in favor, that the planned unit development be responsible for a trailway along Pilot Knob Road, through the extent of the P.U.D. Further, that the Commission review each lot at time of plat application for specific parks dedication requirements. It. BEAUTIFUL SAVIOUR LUTHERAN CHURCH Jim Sturm explained the plating of the church property simultaneously with construction activity. Chairman Martin indicated past practice by the Advisory Commission relative to cash dedication requirements for church property. A motion by Martin, seconded by Carroll, cash dedication requirment is waived until such time as the church property shall change land use. All members voted in favor. 5. ROY SPANDEE -LOT SPLIT A motion by Carolyn Thurston, and seconded by George Kubik, recommended that the newly created lot be subject to a cash dedication requirement for residental units for the newly created lot. 2 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. October 2, 1986 6. DAKOTA ELECTRIC - WAIVER OF PLAT - ELECTRICAL SUB-STATION Planner Sturm indicated the needs of Dakota Electric for an additional sub- station at the east edge of the City. Dakota Electric had worked with City staff identifying several possible locations; this was selected as the most suitable'and unobtrusive. There was discussion by the Advisory Commission concerning the _requirements for a cash dedication, that they be consistent with policy established with cash :.dedication requirements for. Northwestern Bell. Motion was made -and..seconded to require a cash dedication for the sub- station at .04 a square-foot. Planner Sturm went over proposals being considered for the month of November. OLD BUSINESS -PARKS DEDICATION REVISIONS Chairman Martin indicated that he wanted the Advisory Commission to review the proposed Parks Dedication Revisions carefully, even though it had previously reviewed the change in September. Department of Parks and Recreation Director, Ken Vraa reviewed the purpose and intent of the revisions, to relate and correlate the ordinance and standards established to ensure a relationship between density and land/cash dedication requirements. The Director of Parks and Recreation then went through each section, and revisions made, noting changes from the previous policy. It was indicated that residential parkland dedication calculation used 1985 household census, and that twelve (12) acres per thousand population was the established standard for neighborhood development. In response to a question the director responded that; revision to a census in 1990 may require another revision in the Parks Dedication Policy at that time. Chairman Martin suggested that Paragraph 3, Item G, be changed to Commission, rather than Eagan City Council. Members were in agreement for this revision. Members then discussed Paragraphs H and G indicating that these two paragraphs should be reversed for clarification. Tom Ketcham indicated that he was in agreement with Chairman Martin, that he felt the two items were contradictory and should be reversed, in order. Chairman Martin said the policy might include certain zoning requirements providing for One-hundred (100) square feet of open space, per unit for multiple residential development. Also, discussed was the requirement for a tot-lot; that should be included in Paragraph H. Ms. Bertz felt that the tot-lot was not contrary to Item G, because tot-lots are not considered a significant item. After further discussion, Commission members agreed that Paragraph G and H shall be changed in order of presentation. Further, that Item H, strike the words "particularly pre-school children" to be substituted for "such as tot-lots and open play space". 3 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. October 2, 1986 Chairman Martin suggested, words "per residential unit" be included after "cash equivalences". Al.1 members indicated their agreement. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa indicated that the Commercial and Industrial Dedication.Requirements remain as originally written in 1983. Roger Martin felt that the City should consider reviewing this for an increase, if not now, at a later date. He contended that the four cents (.04) a square foot is less than the actual land value increase- over the last several years, and the need to keep current. with inflationary-values. Dick Car roll. indicated a eement. He liked the gr gradual steps of increase. He noted that there.. had not been-an increase. since. 1983. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa, indicated that he felt that four cents (.04) a square foot was an adequate figure, and the Commission may wish to consider this in the future. After considerable discussion, it was moved, seconded, and all approved the four cents per square foot of net land area be raised to four-point four (4.4) cents per square foot. Commission then discussed Paragraph 6, sub-paragraphs B and D. It was suggested that a new paragraph be drafted to include a statement that additional trails may be required as connections to other trail links. After additional discussions, members-were agreed that this be included as-Paragraph C. There being no further revisions to the proposed Parks Dedication policy, Chairman Martin asked for a motion to refer this draft to the City Council for feedback, and if necessary final revisions before final approval by Commission and Council. A motion by Bertz, seconded by Carroll, with all members voting in favor; the document is to be submitted to the City Council as a draft document. CINNAMON/RIVER HILLS - LETTER OF COMPLAINT Chairman Martin noted that Mary Teske recently arrived concerning Item F-1 under "New Business". Commission agreed to hear this item at this time. Mary Teske shared her letter, dated September 8th, 1986, with a concern for flooding of a dry pond area, within the parkland and beneath the NSP powerline. She indicated that the residents are very concerned for their lives and property due to the high water level, that over flowed and spilled into the homes of the Riverhills 9 area. She indicated that the children needed park space, because there was so little room in the Cinnamon Ridge Development with 600 units. She felt that the higher density with smaller yards, meant that this area should be utilized for play space. After additional comments by Mrs. Teske, the Commission had several questions regarding the park and pond. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa responded, the pond was to have been constructed as a dry pond, and that after rain storms had subsided, this area is to have drained down. Mary Teske indicated that the pond has never functioned as initially intended, even though five years have now gone by. Chairman Martin indicated that he recalls that this parcel was never to have been classified as "active parkland", but as a ponding area and open space. Other members agreed, and it was their recollection that the Commission recommended to the City Council that this area not be included as part of the parkland dedication. Director Vraa indicated that the parkland has been held in a "preservation status", with 4 Adv.Parks & Rec. Comm. Oct. 2, 1986 ponding area included. Chairman Kubik expressed his concern for the loss of trees and damage to, property and erosion, as well as the water nuisance problem, which concerned him. He felt the problem should be resolved. Chairman Martin felt ,the problem was that of the Engineering Department, rather than Parks. Also, at issue was - if the problem is corrected, will _.-facilities be placed-in the parcel? It would be too wet to mow! and certainly unsuitable for playgrounds or, ballfields. Tom Ketcham indicated that there was an obviou.s- problem,which. was - in need.. of a solution. Roger Martin indicated that the water was obviously much higher than was approved by the Engineering Department and therefore should be reviewed. Ketcham moved, that Staff -send a memorandum to the City Council and City Engineer with the letter from Mary attached, sharing. the Commission's concern for the problems and a -need for a solution to correct it. The motion was seconded by Bertz, with all members voting in favor. Members suggested that a copy be sent to the consulting engineers. . BLACKHAWK PARK Director of Parks and Recreation explained that Ed Dunn, owner and developer of Blackhawk Park P.U.D., has again expressed interest in selling his property adjacent to Blackhawk Park to the .City for expansion of Blackhawk Park. The director continued by indicating that Mr. Dunn has - been in contact with a major buyer, who is interested in purchasing all of Mr. Dunn's property that is in the City of Eagan, and adjacent areas. He further indicated that it was Mr. Dunn's opinion, which the director concurred with, that a future owner would be less likely to sell any portion of the property for inclusion as part of Blackhawk Park, and certainly not at the price that Mr. Dunn was offering. There was considerable discussion by the Advisory Commission with all in agreement that the Commission had spent a considerable amount of time reviewing the Blackhawk Park issue and the necessity of purchasing additional park property. In response-to a question, the director indicated that existing P.U.D. will be provided for approximately fourteen (14) acres of parks dedication. Member Thurston asked if the $22,000 per acre purchase price could be extended over a four or five year period, if the City did not buy more than ten or twelve acres. Commission member Kubik questioned the amount parks dedication fees raised in 1986. He said, the fees could be used for this additional acquisition. Carolyn Thurston questioned grant funding availability. Chairman Martin questioned what the optimum acquisition would be? Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa responded, that preservation of the shoreline of sufficient size, for use and protection was essential.. Secondlyy that additional land east of the park should be acquired, because of it's superior quality. He also indicated the Commission shall acquire the parcel on the north side of the lake, owned by K. Waldron. There was additional questioning and discussion by the Advisory Commission regarding priority and amount of property that might be acquired and funded. 5 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. October 2, 1986 Martin expressed his concern regarding access to the park, versus shoreline or other property. Director Vraa suggested that the Commission consider no less than ten (10) acres acquisition. That had been proposed in the grant .application in 1985. ,Carolyn Thurston,asked if.grant.money became, available, could we use it. Director Vraa replied, yes, it could be utilized, but maybe .too late in the process, due. to the apparent speed with which the purchaser was pursuing the property from Mr. Dunn. Members Kubik and Carroll suggested that access would not be a. problem, because if it. was not given willingly, condemnation could- be considered. Member'Thurston asked for further definition of alignment of the property, perhaps for the Commission to make an on-site tour. After additional discussion, it was agreed that 'staff prepare an overall alternatives for land acquisition, beginning with at least a ten (10) acre parcel. Additional increments of five (5) acres should also be considered. The meeting was set for Monday, 5 o'clock P.M. Members to meet at the Deerwood Drive access. MOONEY LAfE - PROJECT 473 Director of Parks and Recreation provided a Status Report on Project 473; The outlet of Mooney Lake to Patrick Eagan Park. He indicated that he had written a letter to Engineer, Mark Hanson, stating that the Advisory Commission wished to review alignment and method by which storm water would pass through Patrick Eagan Park, and impact the pond area. NEW BUSINESS - LONG RANGE PLANNING Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, introduced the necessity of long range planning, and in this case the creation of a Cultural Art Center. Mr. Vraa indicated that there were twenty (20) acres of property adjacent to Patrick Eagan Park that is owned by Mr. Caponi, which may make a suitable site for such a center. Mr. Caponi previously indicated his desire for the City to acquire this parcel for such designated use. Mr. Caponi indicated he would excuse himself from the meeting, in order that the Commission members could discuss this item. Members requested he stay, and answer several questions regarding the intentions. Mr. Caponi responded to several questions regarding the parcel and his intented uses and what might be envisioned as a "Cultural Art Center". He indicated that he had two options regarding the property. His first option is to pursue a dream, which would serve the community as the original purpose in purchasing the property. Mr. Caponi continued the brief explanations, saying the last option opened to him is to sell the parcel for development. Carolyn Thurston indicated that this was an exciting idea, but needs more information concerning the proposal. Sandy Bertz questioned if a purchase price has been discussed. It was indicated that "the how to" had not yet been determined pending determination of Commission and Council interest levels. Member Kubik made a motion to direct staff to explore the concept with additional information and alteratives for funding and costs to be provided. Seconded by Sandy Masin, with all members voting in favor. 6 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. October 2, 1986 WATER QUALITY REPORT Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa distributed a memorandum from Tom Colbert, Director of Public Works on the status of the Water Quality Management Plan. Director Vraa indicated the City is progressing with an inventory.now being taken of all land areas. He felt there was sufficient opportunities for the Commission for reviewal of comment on the Management Plan. Roger Martin stated that this was not what he had Intended, and was more interested in the Drainage Systems Plan. _He felt the City was not showing sufficient concern with flooding of the ponds, particularly in park areas, which were destroying significant vegetation. He noted that Trapp Farm Park and Schwanze Lake was a perfect example of this. Director Vraa responded by indicating that storm sewer projects are seen as "unnecessary", until a problem occurs, and then it is too late. Roger indicated that he was in disagreement, questioning "when will the City learn to plan ahead"? He felt the City needed to identify lakes with existing outlets, to rivers, and that if lakes are in parks; we must insist upon an outlet before water is allowed in to prevent any type of flooding. He felt the City was bending over backwards for the sake of the developer, and not for the people. We need to slow the process down. We are not controlling erosion and impacts on lake quality; we are moving to fast. Sandy Masin questioned whether Tom Colbert was responsible for all of these issues. After further discussion, -Roger Martin made a motion to ask Mr. Colbert to come a meeting to respond to some specific questions in regard to the Storm Water Plan. He was concerned primarily within ponds and lakes with existing and proposed park areas, and what the management plan is if development occurs. Would there be significant impact on vegetation within each of the park areas? Sandy Masin seconded, with all members voting in favor. COACHES TRAINING - NATIONAL YOUTH SPORTS COACHES ASSOCIATION Director Vraa distributed a memorandum regarding Parks and Recreation Department's affiliation with The National Youth Sports Coaches Association through the Minnesota Parks and Recreation Association. He indicated that the department could become an affiliate chapter at no cost, which would allow it to provide for a coaches training and certification program. Staff members Dorothy Peterson and Paula Sunder are already certified to teach the program. Several questions were asked of Dorothy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor regarding the program. Members expressed positive support for the program, which was considered long overdue. Motion by Kubik, seconded by Thurston, motioned to have the Parks and Recreation Department become an affiliate chapter through MRPA, of the National Youth Sports Coaches Association be approved. All members voted in favor. 7 Adv. Parks & Rea. Comm. October 2, 1986 PARKS DEVELOPMENT Parks Planner/Landscape Architect, Steve Sullivan updated the Commission on the various development projects. He identified five areas in which the contracts required modification-and would cost the City additional dollars. This included the addition of. bituminous and concrete curb and gutter work at Blue Cross/Blue Shield Park at Blackhawk Road, changing the stain at the psvvillion, soil problem at'Blue Cross/Blue Shield Park, extention of concrete sidewalk at the park shelter buildings, and change of the interior surface at the shelter building deleting a tectum material in favor of full cedar siding. Commission asked several questions regarding these changes and the proposed change for Trapp Farm Park pavillion. This included a retaining wall between the proposed trail and the shelter building.- In response to a question, Mr. Sullivan explained that while it had always been envisioned that there would be a small retaining wall, the scope of it has grown as a result of the actual placement of the building. Placing the building at a higher elevation would have reduced or minimized the retaining wall as originally intended, but it would have created unnatural grade between the building and the lake. - 2: Project Priorities - 1987 Director of Parks and Recreation introduced this issue, indicating the importance of defining the 1987 construction priorities. Members asked that this item be deferred until the next meeting in November. Director indicated that because of the necessity of doing some necessary and crucial work this fall, the Commission at least must determine the construction priorities. Each Park discussed, the design and construction sites proposed, indicating the rationale for each of those listed. Director of Parks and Recreation indicated that Thomas Lake Park must be included as a top priority, because of the LCMR/LAWCON Grant. It was indicated that Carnelian and O'Leary already had a Concept Plan prepared and those two parks also seem logical. Sandy Bertz also indicated that Lakeside Park had a Concept Plan and could be included in that list. After additional discussions, it was the conclusion of the Advisory Commission that Thomas Lake, Carnelian, O'Leary and Lakeside Parks should be the construction projects for 1987. Tennis court construction, hockey rink, and lighting contracts should also be let for those parks listed in the memorandum. After- additional discussion, Carolyn Thurston moved, seconded with all members voting in favor, that this item be deferred until the meeting on Monday, October 6th for finalization. 8 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. October 2, 1986 DESIGN REVIEW - SUN SHELTERS/WARMING HOUSES -Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa viewed the sketch plans for the - warming house facilities. He indicated that the exterior design was similiar to that now being used in the current_eonstruction programs, but that the interior be very utilitarian, utilizing plywood. The heating system would be electrical, -thus-avoiding the additional cost and-concerns of bringing in gas or-propane. .Roger Martin.queationed; the economics of__using this method. He indicated that over the long run usage would be cheaper than costs associated with propane or gas utility installations. The director went on to explain the type of construction, flexibility of window and door locations, etc. -The director said, that the. main issue and direction required from the .Advisor Commision concerned whether there should be handicapped facilities or not. He stated that building codes required structures over 2,000 square feet be handicap accessible. If there is to be handicapped restrooms, this would require a larger space area and the provisions for ventilation, heating, and wash facilities. This would thus create significant cost additions not planned for. There was discussion as to whether these facilities would be .necessary, inasmuch as these buildings would be used a relatively short period of time. Ir response to a question, Director Vraa responded that potentially there would be as many as eight of these in the City and sited Well Site Park, as a typical example of where they would be installed. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa went on to explain. the other alternatives of using satellite facilities. The one drawback was that they have strictly exterior access, not interior. Sheltered by a .wing wall the satellite would be covered on three sides and not be visible- from the surrounding neighborhoods. Commission members agreed that this is the most flexible design. Roger Martin stated that he felt that at least two of the facilities should be designed as a total handicapped accessibility. It was the concensus of the Commission that this seemed to be a middle ground approach between providing for handicapped accessibility at higher use locations. Commission member Thurston expressed approval of the design, indicating that it seemed to be flexible construction use, and offering an attractive outside appearance for the neighborhood areas, simple, durable interior, and hopefully, cost effective. After further discussion, Director Vraa indicated that he felt the Commission was in agreement and he would proceed with further directions to the architects to determine cost estimating. The Commission then discussed sun shelters. A model was prepared by the architects, which the Director of Parks and Recreation distributed. Member Caponi indicated his preference for a particular roof design, stating that it was more interesting and could be oriented easily to become an inviting facility. After additional explanation by the Director of Parks and Recreation, Commission members approved of the design concept for further refinement and cost estimating. 9 Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. October 2, 1986 OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS Chairman Martin asked. the director to briefly review the Commission on the -remaining agenda itemsf due to the late hour. The director reviewed a letter from the _residents.concerning_the Brittany 10th Addition, the building permit activities, and the_Department of Recreation'_s planned group cable productions. He indicated, that _the Staff would perhaps have a one-half hour show, possibly beginning in November or early December. There was also discussion about changing in the fee structure relative to tennis courts, and ballfields. Commission members indicated that they would prefer not to charge fees for these reservations for these facilities, but choose to monitor it to determine if it was necessary. Mr. Martin said, he would like the Park Naming Committee to meet and come up with official names for some of the recent park acquisitions. There being no further items, a motion by Carroll, seconded by Thurston, the meeting was adjourned at 11:32. Dated , 'Advisory Parks and Recreation Secretary 10