11/06/1986 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINNESOTA REGULAR MEETING OF THE
ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
NOVEMBER 6, 1986
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called
to order by Chairman Martin at 7:05 P.M. Members present were: Porter, Alt,
Masin, Martin, Thurston, Bertz, Caponi, Carroll, Kubik. Absent was Commission
member Ketcham, who was ill. Staff present were: Director of Parks and
Recreation, Ken Vraa; Parks Planner/Landscape Architect Stephen Sullivan;
Planner, Jim Sturm; Student Intern, Julie Lencowski. Other visitors were
present for specific agenda items.
AGENDA
Chairman Martin asked to have added to the agenda the setting of a date to
visit the parcels being proposed for development by Mr. Hall and Sienna
Corporation. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa, asked that under "New
Business", Item #5 - Trails, be added. There being no further additions, a
motion by Thurston, seconded by Carroll, with all members voting in favor, the
agenda of November 6th was approved.
MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 4, 1986
Chairman Martin noted several typographical mistakes for correction. It was
noted that under "Round Table - Item C" the word "collected" should have been
inserted after the words "additional dollars". Motion by Alt, seconded by
Masin, with all in favor the September 4th, 1986 minutes were approved as
amended.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 6, 1986
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OCTOBER 2, 1986
Commission Bertz moved, seconded by Kubik, with all members voting in favor
that the minutes of October 2, 1986, be approved as presented.
In the minutes of the Special Meeting, October 6th, member Carroll corrected
the Waldron spelling! A. motion _b'y Carroll, seconded by Kubik, with all
members in favor, minutes of October 6th as amended, were approved.
Chairman Martin noted that Planner Jim Sturm was not present at this time, and
moved that the Commission discuss Item #1 under "New Business", Eagan Hockey
petition.
COMMUNITY CENTER PETITION
Mr. Robert Smith, President of the Eagan Hockey Boosters, presented a petition
representing approximately 250 signatures of Eagan residents. Mr. Smith
said, the petition was collected to show the City Council and Advisory
Commission the interest within the City for developing a Community Center. He
went on to state that the petitioners felt that the City of Eagan needed a
Community Center to service existing needs of the City, and as the City
continues to grow, these needs will only expand. He indicated that many
residents were tired of travelling to Burnsville and Rosemount to make use of
facilities. He indicated that nearly $13,000 of ice time was purchased from
other arenas, as skaters must go to other communities to skate or swim. He
stated that the names on the petition' represented mostly those interested in
hockey and swimming.
Roger Martin then explained to Mr. Smith the existing information concerning a
community center and the recent Commission formation of a Study Committee.
Mr. Smith, in response to a question, stated that he felt that School District
#196, identified primarily with Rosemount, and not Eagan, was a major factor
for people gravitating towards Rosemount in the use of their facilities. He
felt that Eagan needs a recreational hub, and a community center would fulfill
that need. Chairman Martin questioned if the petition represented the
interest of the general population or if it was strictly "hockey interests".
Mr. Smith responded, that he felt the petition represented Eagan Hockey Club,
but also included others interested in swimming and a community center in
general. Mr. Martin said, that he felt the petition was a good inventory
tool, and felt there were other recreation and social concerns for a community
center, which the City must study. After additional discussion, and a motion
by Kubik, seconded by Carroll, with all in favor, that the petition be
accepted from the Hockey Association, noting that the City Council has
directed the Commission to prepare a first phase study.
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-Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 6, 1986
STORM SEWER STUDY
Chairman Martin noted that this item was deferred to December, as a result of
Mr. Colbert's required attendance at the City Council meeting, which was held
simultaneously in the Council Chambers.
CITY CODE REVIEW
-Roger Martin explained, that each individual has a responsibility to review
those sections of the City Code pertaining to parks. He then inquired as to
where the "Parks Dedication" is in the City Code? Director Vraa replied,
that within the zoning section, references are made to the requirement and
certain dedications for parks purposes, which are then spelled out by the City
.policy. Commission member Thurston questioned whether the Commission will be
made aware of any City code changes and updates, as well as revisions.
Director Vraa responded that, as the City code book is updated, the revised
pages would be sent to the Commission members.
After additional discussion, Chairman Martin suggested that the Commission
submit their reviews in writing to the Director of Parks and Recreation
regarding issues pertaining to parks in anticipation of next month's meeting.
Such memorandums could then be compiled and sent to the Commission with the
packet. November 24th was established as the deadline date to have these into
the Director's office.
COMMUNITY CENTER STUDY
The Director of Parks and Recreation presented a list of existing facilities
to the Commission for further review and refinement, as potential facilities
to visit. He indicated the Commission should consider dates for visits,
which facilities to visit, and add any other facilities not mentioned. Jo
Anne Alt questioned, what the difference was between a first and second
generation ice arena, which the Director responded to. George Kubik
questioned what the Staff's top five facility prorities were? The response
was: St. Louis Park, Brooklyn Center, and Eden Prairie, as being three of
the top possibilities on the list. Bogert Martin said, he wished to go to the
three sites, as mentioned. Sandy Bertz concurred saying, she felt these three
facilities were very important to visit. After additional discussion, the
Commission decided on the second Saturday in January (January 10th), in which
to make visits to the sites. Director of Parks and Recreation was requested
to mail out questionnaires to these community centers and set up meeting
times.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 7, 1986
SNOWMOBILE TRAIL USE REQUEST
Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, presented the request from the
Eagan Snowmobile Club as requested by Mr. Maynard-Ohm. He stated that this
was a request for a fourth or fifth season. Chairman Martin questioned if
there had been any problems in the past year. The Director responded that,
the only problem was that the people do not stay on the designated trails, and
go on-to-parks, specifically Walnut Hill, Trapp Farm, and Rahn school sites.
Martin asked if the Snowmobile Club could do an additional job of policing,
would the use continue? ~Sandy `Masiz questioned, if it was- possible. to-.find
out if the snowmobile abusers are within the Snowmobile Club. Jo Anne Alt
commented that most of the use was along the Highline Trail, in which more. and
more homes-were being built adjacent to it. .She indieated.that snowmobiles
along the trails do not mix well with residential development. Roger Martin
concurred that more and more people are living along the Highline Trails, and
if the snowmobiles are abusive they do not work together. After additional
discussion concerning various problems, on a motion by Kubik, seconded by
Martin, with eight members voting in favor, and one "no" vote, the Commission
recommended to the City Council approvals to use Highline Trail Corridor and
Johnny Cake Ridge Road as corridor for access to the Dakota County Trail
System as in previous years. The Commission further went on the record to
express concern with problems, which occur in other areas and asked the
Snowmobile Club and Police Department to continue monitoring these issues.
PARK NAMING COMMITTEE
Commission member Carroll suggested that this item be deferred until the
December meeting, in order that he may obtain some historical data regarding
individual sites to be considered for official naming.
FIRST DRAFT DEMOGRAPHIC STUDY
Julie Lencowski, Student Intern from The University of Minnesota, indicated
that her project for the department was to update the demographic information
as contained in the Parks Systems Planned Study. Julie went on to indicate
that she had completed her review of all housing data through August of 1985,
which computed into a population of approximately 31,000 people. Continued
review of the building permits from September of 1985 through 1986, indicated
that the population is 40,000, excluding vacancy rates, which represents about
10%. Julie indicated that the continuation of the study would break down the
population within park service areas,-for review at the December meeting.
Commission member Alt questioned "What is the child to the adult ratio?",
Julie indicated that the study was utilizing demographic figures provided by
School District #196. She decided that there were approximately 3.34
individuals per single family household. Porter indicated that District #196
keeps records of all children from birth dates. It was suggested that the
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 7, 1986
demographer.be contacted from the school district. Julie responded that, the
City and the School District use different formats, as did the 1985 census,
consequently.it was very difficult to have the various boundaries match in
order to ensure figures are accurate. She further went on to indicate that
the City staff had contacted the school district .to.receive.some assistance.
After further questioning and discussion, Julie. indicated that- -she hoped to
have the complete report and the updated parks system pages at the December
Commission meeting. PATRICK EAGAN PARK/LILLIAN MCCARTHY-,PARCEL
Director of Parks and Recreation explained the past acquisition..of Patrick
Eagan Park, from Joe and Lillian McCarthy. He asked if the City wished to
purchase, what is now the homesite of Lillian McCarthy, adjacent to Lexington
Avenue and represents 3.8 acres. He indicated that the parcel was not
presently being offered for sale. However, a family member did wish to see if
the City still had an interest in the property. Carolyn Thurston inquired as
to what the cost of the parcel was. The director responded that, an appraisal
of the property was done in 1985, which concluded that the house and parcel
was worth approximately $96,000. Chairman Martin responded that he has always
been disappointed with the frontage along Lexington Avenue for Patrick Eagan
Park, noting that the small road access virtually hides the park from users.
Several Commission members spoke in support of necessity of acquiring this
parcel for various reasons, including frontage, road access to the park, eta.
On a motion by Kubik, seconded by Thurston, Staff was to continue to review
purchasing of the property, as well-as utilization of the house, should the
property be placed on the market, or be offered to the City. Motion carried.
TRAILS
Director of Parks and Recreation and the Staff has been working to update the
Trails Map, for several months. He stated that he had just received the
latest update from Tim Erkkila, who wished to give a first review with the
Advisory Commission. He stressed the large amount of trails construction
since the last update in the Comprehensive Trails Plan. He indicated that
changes were made, with the trail along the right-of-way on Northview Park
Road, south to Diffley. The second change was extended to the trail along
Thomas Lake Road Extension, to the south of Deerwood; with the need to add
Coachman Road Trail, as directed by the Commission previously. Dick Carroll
commented that there was need to add the trail beneath the northern state's
power easement (north/south) as a none-right-of-way trail. Commission
members commented on other trail sections. The Director responded that at the
December meeting, there will be a reduction for Commission members for final
review and approval. Commission member Carroll sited the C-1 Classification
for the south side of the east/west trail along Cliff Road, noting the high
traffic use on this County Road. He suggested that the City continue to
indicate this as future off-road trailway.
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Adv. Parks & Bee. Comm.
November 6, 1986
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL
.Chairman Martin noted that- Jim Sturm was now available, and the Commission
could review the development reports. Jim Sturm first presented a brief
.overview,of the, proposal by Molenaro and Associates entitled "Pond View".
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Mr, Sturm then explained-Stafford Place, a proposed single family home
development of approximately 200 lots, of which 114 did not meet current City
Code. He also indicated that the City Engineering Department felt a
north/south collector's street was necessary, and may well be placed through
this devel_oment. He further, indicated that he expects some changes in the
plat, as a result of the non-conformance of the zoning ordinance and the
collector street issue. Also, he noted that there should be trails along--the
north/south road, trail access to the school site and along Diffley Road.
Chairman Martin asked if Staff had contacted the school district to.see'if the
trail is wanted. There was much discussion by the Advisory Commission
concerning this plat. The Commission was in agreement that a trailway on
Cliff Road, and along the north/south street as shown, should be required.' A
cash dedication would also be a requirement. After further discussion, and
noting that the plat may be changed, the Commission determined that it would
withhold it's final recommendation concerning the plat, until these revisions
had been completed. Carolyn Thurston, noting that the issues of trails were
such a concern with the Hampton Heights development; and this is the same
developer; the Commission should go on record that no lot should be sold until
the exact trail locations are determined. Upon a motion by Thurston,
seconded by Carroll, with all Commission members in favor, it was moved that
the-Commission go on record that the pre-selling of lots should not occur
until all trail locations are determined, with a development agreement
prepared. -
MANOR LAi~ ADDITION
Planner Jim Sturm reviewed the proposed plat entitled "Manor Lake" indicating
that Outlet C, was designated as commercial use. He stated that the Planning
Commission continue this item, because the plat had failed to recognize uses
to the south, and the contingency plan for Outlot C - should rezoning to
commercial not be granted.
Parks Planner, Stephen Sullivan, reviewed an analysis over the area proposed
for parkland dedication. He indicated that the topography was relatively
flat and represented the best area within the forty-three (43) acre parcel.
The area was basically pasture, without any significant vegetation, with good
visual orientation to the pond to the west. He stated that the parcel was
relatively small and much tighter than the typical parks being done, and much
closer in proximity to proposed homes. After further review by the Landscape
Architect, the Commission questioned the size of the park parcel, in relation
to the plat. Members noted that the size of the dedication appears to be less
than that which would be required from the 10% dedication policy. Members
were also concerned relative to the small size of lake access. Most
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 7, 1986
Commission members agreed that the general location shown was appropriate for
the park. Members questioned access to the park via the proposed cul-de-sac,
and the limited road frontage for access to the park from this development.
There continued considerable discussion regarding the size of the park and the
park access, as well trails connection to the west. Director Vraa responded
that Staff had prepared a scheme which removed the cul-de-sac and would
provide a curvilinear roadway. Commission members were in agreement with this
layout, indicating the preference -spot of road access, and visual connection
to the park. After additional discussion, a motion by Carroll, seconded by
Porter, with all-members voting in favor, the Commission went on record as
indicating that they favored the layout on sheet #4, with the additional road
frontage, increase in parkland closer to the representation of the plat, and
future expansion possibilities. Further, that the City receive dedication for
platted outlots at this time, that a trail access to the west, within the
proposed roadway shown in Outlot A, be provided, that south property
acquisition provide for an open play space, and that the City recognize the
unusual situation, in which the City does not typically have a neighborhood
park under ten (10) acres and the necessity of providing for a smaller,
atypical neighborhood park, as a result of roads isolating this neighborhood.
PARKS DEVELOPMENT
Landscape Architect/Parks Planner, Steve Sullivan updated the Advisory
Commission on the status of parks development, indicating that most of the
:work that is outstanding could be completed within two weeks, given favorable
weather conditions. He stated that 'the building contractor is proceeding
well, but still very much behind schedule.
DESIGN REVIEW/COST ESTIMATES - SUN SHELTER WARMING HOUSE
Director of Parks and Recreation reviewed the cost estimate for the warming
houses and the sun shelter at $32,340. and $10,250. respectively. He stated
that in the case of the sun shelters, and if City forces were used - a
savings of $5,100 could be made. A savings of approximately $8,000 might be
made from the warming house construction. He stated that the issue for the
Commission was, if they desired to move ahead more quickly, the buildings
should be constructed as part of a contract. If, however, the Commission felt
that a slower approach could be used, City forces could build the shelters.
In response to one question, the Director responded that bid specifications
for these buildings be done by staff, because of the similarity of
construction techniques with current construction program and the simplicity
of design. Chairman Martin was concerned about the number of windows shown.
Member Caponi questioned how these facilities would be situated on the site
and their orientation. Director Vraa responded, that the number and location
of windows can be expanded quite easily. The design shown was a generic
approach. Further, that the exact building location and orientation would be
dependent upon the park. It would also have an impact on the location of
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 7, 1986
doors and windows. After further discussion, and response to a question, the
Director responded that he would recommend that the City forces build the sun
shelters, in hopes of constructing between one and three in 1987. Further,
that the warming house shelter be part of a building contract, that might go
with Blue Cross/Blue Shield and Quarry Park. The first priority would be for
Carnelian Park, which is slated for refurbishment in 1987. After additional
discussion and a motion by Kubik, seconded by Masin, with all members- voting
in favor, the Staff recommendation included the warming house building
contract, with City forces to:complete- the sun shelters be approved.
LAND ACQUISITION
Director of Parks-and -Recreation told the Advisory Commission that all
acquisitions have now been completed for the Curry/Ohmann and Church parcel.
Director indicated that the Derrick Land Company had not as yet closed on the
parcels creating the Fairway Hills Addition, because of an apparent lack of
funding. Commission member Thurston questioned, if this might not open the
door for additional acquisition as the next athletic site. Commission
discussed this possibility, and a motion by Thurston, seconded by Bertz, Staff
was directed to review the possibility for additional acreage acquisition,
within the Ohmann Estate for the next athletic site. Commission member Kubik
moved, seconded by Carroll, that the Commission send a letter to Mr. Jim Curry
thanking him for his cooperation with the City in securing his land for an
addition to Northview Park. All members were in favor.
BOND FUND SUMMARY
Director of Parks and Recreation then reviewed a bond fund summary, prepared
by the development, indicating that it was a status report on the expenditures
to date. He reviewed the various figures, indicating that they were very
preliminary, due to the work in process and still unknown certainties
associated with parks yet to be developed. He stated that the bottom line was
that the bond fund was very much on target. In response to a question from
member Alt, the Director explained the transfer of $100,000 for the buildings
from the parksite fund. He stated that this was at the direction of the
Advisory Commission at the time the Commission was reviewing costs for these
.facilities.
OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS
LLWCON/LCMR Grant
Director Vraa stated that he had received communications from State Senators
Durenburger and Boschwitz concerning the City LAWCON application, as well as
local Representatives. He felt that the funding for LAWCON/LCMR funds would
be appropriated and that the grant for Thomas Lake Park would be approved.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 7, 1986
-Maintenance Report,
Chairman Martin said that he appreciated the Maintenance Report, noting the
amount of work that the maintenance staff had accomplished.
Caponi Parcel-Site Visit
Members discussed the pending visit to Caponi parcel for reviewal of the
Community Art Center. Martin indicated that he would also like to review the
parcel being proposed for development by Mr. Hall and Sienna Corporation.
After discussion, the Commission agreed to view the sites beginning on
Saturday, at 9:00 A.M. commencing at City Hall.
Northview Park Road
Director of Parks and Recreation stated, that the Northview Park Road, as a
result of the Lexington Park Square development would be upgraded in order for
construction to begin next year. Construction will be in phases to
accommodate access to the park, and there will be storm water improvement
plans. Members expressed interest in these storm water plans and a desire to
review such plans prior to public hearings.
Winter Rinks Priority
Staff had prepared a maintenance and priority program for winter rinks.
Director reviewed these-plans as consistent with previous Commission
direction. It was noted that this year's program should improve, as a result
of the Street Department requiring less parks maintenance men to help plow
streets in snow emergencies.
Building Interiors
Director responded that Staff has been researching the various carpeting and
furniture available for installation at Trapp Farm Park and Goat Hill.
However, he stated that none of this was approved in the parks bond fund and
it would be appropriate for the Commission to now approve the staff purchasing
of these items. A motion by Kubik, seconded by Caponi, with all members in
favor, Staff was authorized to proceed with the purchase of carpeting and
furniture for the two buildings, as discussed.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
November 6, 1986,
Softball Fees
Director of Parks and Recreation stated that the League Leadership Committee
for the Softball-Organization's have recommended that a $25.00 "new team
initiation" fee be applied. The new team fee would then be deposited for use
at Northview Park or other athletic facilities. A motion by Bertz, seconded
by Caponi, with all in favor, Staff was authorized to charge an initiation fee
of $25.00- fee for- new teams in the adult softball leagues. _
Rahn Root
Director Vraa updated the Advisory Commission on the Rahn roof status,
indicating that a cost of $30,000 for the construction of a false roof was
received. Staff is now proceeding with repair work under a proposal form,
rather than the more expensive roof design.
Waldron Parcel
Director Vraa stated that he has received a copy of the certificate of title
for the Kathy Waldron parcel, indicating it's size. Commission has already
recommended acquistion of the parcel, but an offer price has not been
determined. Staff recommended a price of $115,000 plus assessments. All
members in favor.
December Meeting
Commission member Alt suggested that the December meeting be held at Trapp
Farm Park. She suggested that this could be the Christmas party for the
Commission.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, the meeting of November 6th, 1986 was
adjourned at 10:115 P.M.
Dated Advisory Parks & Recreration Secretary
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