03/25/1987 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF THE
ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
COMMUNITY CENTER STUDY COMMITTEE
MARCH 25, 1987
The meeting of the Community Center Study Committee was called to order at
7:00 P.M. by Roger Martin, Chairman. Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken
Vraa, introduced the session, indicating that the meeting was intended as a
"listening session", to obtain additional information regarding the needs and
interests of the community. He explained the process of the meeting, which
would be a series of presenters through the evening, allowing sufficient time
for questions and answers. Mr. Vraa introduced the first panel, consisting of
Mr. Russ Fraenkel and Mr. Pete Kelzenberg, both of School District #196,
Community Education Department. Representatives of RAVE Swim Club, including
Mr. Loren Carlson and Mrs. Fred McGinty. Mr. Fraenkel presented a grid
schedule indicating utilization of the gym space within the school district.
He indicated that the peak time is the winter quarter with heavy usage by the
various associations and park and recreation agencies. He indicated that it
was difficult to assess the impact of the new schools or to anticipate the
demand to which it they would be used. Mr. Fraenkel then discussed other use
issues which were developing regarding community education. This included
after school enrichment programs for latch key children and pre-school
children. He stated that if these programs were to be instigated, they would
place an additional burden on space. For example, scouting activities are
currently hampered by the lack of available school gym space and might be
further limited if excluded from the schools as a result of these new
programs. In response to questions, Mr. Fraenkel indicated that "in-house"
programs and booster club programs, which would like to be able to use the
school facilities, and are currently being restricted by the lack of space
availability.
Mr. Kelzenberg, School District #196, Swimming Pool Director, viewed the
swimming pool situation. He indicated that community education can not use
the space, until 5:00 P.M., due to school day swim activities. He stated that
of the 630 participants in the swim program this session, 219 are from Eagan.
He stated that all, sessions are now filled, and many people are turned away
for each session. Commission member Bertz, confirmed this, that she, herself,
had been turned away three successive registrations and now travel to West
St. Paul for swim instruction. Mr. Kelzenberg presented an overview of the
program and how"it was hampered by the lack of suitable swim time. He stated
that the swim program was limited and does not offer as broad of variety of
classes as could be. He also discussed the limitations the size of the pool
- 25 metres and the depth has on the programs offered. Mr. Jim Ertle,
Rosemount High Swim Coach, also reviewed the swimming pool issue, stating
that swimmers often swim from 5:00 A.M. to 7:00 A.M., prior to school, and
after the school day is over. He mentioned that with the high demand for
usage there was a limit to how many could participate in the swim program.
Today, the school district has a policy of restricting cuts to sports teams,
however, in the area of swimming this has had to be the case due to size and
time limitations. There are numerous questions by the Commission members
directed to Mr. Kelzenberg and Mr. Ertle regarding pool usage, and space,
etc.
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Mr. Carlson, RAVE Swim Team, stated their objectives for a competitive program
and of the difficulties in obtaining active pool time. He stated that the
4A Swim Club is relatively small, directly as a result of an inability to obtain
swimming pool time. Approximately 40% of the Club are residents of Eagan. He
stated that in the summertime, the swim club swims outdoors at Richfield,
where they have to rent the swimming pool. He mentioned that this pool is
beneficial, due to the fact that it is a 50 meter pool. Mr. Carlson and Mrs.
McGinty responded to numerous questions regarding: time of day, cost factors,
and travel problems associated with the swim program. In response to a
question, it was noted that there are perhaps only three indoor 50 meter pools
in the metropolitan area, although there are numerous outdoor swimming pools
and diving wells connected to these pools. He felt that the swim program
would definitely grow if there was more room and space availability, and that
Minnesota is a state that is very interested in swimming. In response to
questions, he noted that a swimming pool that could host swim meets with a
larger seating capacity, would benefit the competive program, but would also
benefit recreational swimmers, by providing larger surface space and better
swim depths. It was noted that a 50 metre pool, with a diving well next to
it, would not only have more space, but a lower depth to enhance pool
instruction. A diving well would facilitate such programs as scuba classes,
warm up area, and an additional teaching station not currently offered within
the school program. In response to a question from Mr. Caponi, regarding what
would be a recommendation from the swim group, he responded, that a 50 metre
pool with a separate diving well, with sufficient spectator and teaching space
would be appropriate. After additional questions and comments regarding the
need for a swimming pool, the first panel was adjourned.
Members of the Eagan and the Rosemount Area Hockey Associations spoke next.
Mr. Bob Smith, of the Eagan Hockey Association, stated that his Association
represents residents who live in Eagan, but are primarily in the
Burnsville/Eagan School District. Mr. Smith distributed a handout indicating
the hours of ice time usage in the month of January. He stated that 250 hours
of ice time were used during the season and that 300 to 350 ice time hours
were required. These hours were not available, in spite of the fact that the
Association had contracted with five (5) different ice arenas. He stated that
Apple Valley and Burnsville had the closest facilities, but neither had ice
time available. Mr. Smith stated that the Association had a 20% growth
during the past six (6) years, but the past two (2) years have been the most
significant. He stated that this growth had been predominately the younger
age groups. He mentioned that the Association had spent approximately $20,000
in ice time during the 1986-87 season, but the largest need for ice was in the
early fall and winter months, when outdoor ice time is not available. He
stated that the Association is primarily pick-up recreation hockey leagues,
few travel teams. Mr. Smith. continued stating that the Association was not
only interested in an ice arena, but also saw the need for other facilities,
such as a community room, which could accommodate groups of up to 500 people.
He stated that usage of such a facility would include: adult recreation
hockey, as is offered in other communities.
There were numerous questions by Commission members regarding the hours of
usage, participants in the leagues, ice time costs, the differences between
prime-time and non-prime time ice, etc.
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Mr. Bob Beutow, President of the Rosemount Hockey Association, reviewed that
the Rosemount Association had twenty-seven (27) teams, which used 650 hours
of indoor ice at an average rate of $80.00 per hour in 1986-87. He stated
that they had spent nearly $50,000 in ice time at eight (8) ice arenas. Also,
that the Association had originally desired 950 hours of indoor ice time, but
could only be accommodated for 650. He stated that 400 youth are in their
program, with approximately 35 to 40% from Eagan. He mentioned that the
Association has had a growth rate in the last two years of approximately 20%.
Their ice time begins at approximately 6:00 A.M. and goes to starting times of
9:45 P.M. for the older Bantam and Midget ages. Currently, the Association
is offering a spring league, which encompasses one hundred ten (110) children
registered in five teams. This ice time will begin in late March and run
through early May, and will be conducted in St. Louis Park. Messrs. Smith and
Beutow spoke regarding the need for ice time and other uses, including
recreation league, open hockey, open skate, broomball, and possibly intermural
ice time by schools. He stated that other facilities are using artificial
turf for indoor soccer during the summer. Mr. Beutow and Mr. Smith stated
that the recently approved school bond referendum for a high school would
increase participation levels in hockey, and would undoubtedly increase the
demand for ice time. In response to a question, it was noted that funding for
ice time is from fund raising and in-house program fees. Mr. Beutow replied
to a questions on girls hockey/Ringettes, which will be a 1988 Olympic
sport. Information was given on the game and of the girl's interest in the
program, and again the lack of ice time. Mr. Smith and Mr. Beutow also
discussed for the Commission the economic benefit of hockey tournaments,
which brings families into the community for food, lodging, etc. In response
to a question, members of the hockey panel suggested that a multi-purpose
structure be used as a community center, which might include one or possible
two ice sheets. This should include community rooms, and ample seating.
There were additional questions, and responses between the Advisory
Commission and the Panel, after which Mr. Gary Pietig and Mr. Gary Harker,
Ice Arena managers, were next presented.
Mr. Gary Pietig introduced himself, as the manager of the City of Apple
Valley's Sports Center, a resident of the City of Eagan, and a parent of a
hockey participant. He mentioned that the Apple Valley facility was built
with funds from both City and School District. A joint power agreement
provided for a 50/50 funding split for operation and ice use. This is a multi-
purpose facility, which facilitates tennis in the summer, and special events,
such as AAU wrestling, dog shows, which attracted over 1,500 participants with
dogs from different states, antique and craft shows. A recent survey by
Apple Valley indicated that over 100,000 people, as spectators or users, were
involved in the center last year. While it was built as an ice arena, it has
become a good will ambassador for-the City and is the second most recognized
facility, next to the Apple Valley Zoo, for which the City receives
recognition. He stated that the school district uses the facility in the
daytime for physical education and other programs. The school district has
girls skating teams, ice shows, and also tennis programs when the ice is not
available.
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Mr. Gary Harker, of Burnsville, reviewed the two ice sheet concept currently
in place at the Burnsville Ice Arena, stating that the first facility opened
in 1972 at a cost of 1 Million Dollars, and a second sheet was added with a
fall opening of 1985, with the sale of revenue bonds for approximately 2
Million Dollars. This went for the cost of construction, as well as a
sinking fund. The 2nd Addition cost approximately 1.5 Million. Mr. Harker
stated the Burnsville Athletic 'Club consumes approximately 25% of the
available ice time within the two sheets. The Figure Skating Club consumes
27% and the High School, approximately 5%. Other uses include: broomball,
individual usage, summer hockey schools, learn-to-skate programs, senior
leagues, public skating, and the annual ice show. Mr. Harker stated that the
facility has been an asset to the community, and a strong focal point for the
City. He stated that business community is supportive of the center, as it
brings money into the community with the various summer hockey programs, and
three hockey tournaments that were held this past year. Mr. Harker stated
that if a facility can cover operating expenses, it is doing well. In
response to questions, Mr. Harker stated that over years previous to this
second sheet, the ice arena's greatest loss was $14,000 one year, and revenues
the next were in excess of expenses of $11,000. In 1986, two sheets of ice
produced an income over expenses of $50,000. However, this fell short of
expectations and the need to cover the interest for the bonds. In response to
questions, the ice arena manager stated that adequate seating would mean
approximately 1,500 seats. Mr. Harker responded to several questions
regarding prime-time hours, hourly rates, staff needed to run the facility,
and other similar questions. It was noted that a vending service produces
revenues of $15,000 each year, and other sources of income include: hockey
equipment sales, and skate sharpening.
Mr. Pietig stated that ice arena facilities are more than just ice arenas, and
can be used for a number of other activities. In response to a question, he
felt that the Apple Valley facility could provide a broader range of programs,
were it not for the fact that the ice time is difficult to obtain.
After additional questions and discussions between the ice arena manager and
the Advisory Commission, the panel was dismissed and Mrs. Peg Hasset, Eagan
resident and Jan Vraa, Director of the Burnsville Skating School next
presented. Mrs. Peg Hasset stated that she had been involved in the "Learn to
Skate" program, that was offered by Burnsville, and it's value to her family.
She stated that it has been a social and educational benefit to her children,
and has provided a chance for coordination, movement, and motor skills
development to help them overcome numerous problems. She mentioned that it
appeared that the, Advisory Commission is the business of recreation, which
promotes health and wellness and that this "Learn to Skate" program has done
just that in Burnsville. She indicated that her children have expanded their
interest from just figure skating to include speed skating as a logical
offshoot.
Mrs. Hasset then viewed aspects of the figure skating club at the Burnsville
Skating facility.
Jan Vraa, Director of the Burnsville Skating School, spoke next, stating that
participation has grown from 600 to nearly 1,500 students per year. The
current spring session is the largest ever, with 505 students. The hours of
the program are fitted into three days a week, with the majority of the ice
time on Saturday mornings. Sessions are also conducted Wednesday morning, and
Wednesday evening.
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She stated the instructional school hires six (6) to seven (7) instructors for
each of the sessions. She indicated that the Burnsville Skating School is
probably the most successful in the State, as represented by the numbers of
students involved. Growth in the school has been limited due to the lack of
ice time, and the classes usually fill up within a day or two of when
registration opens. She commented that 58% of the registrants in the spring
session are from Burnsville, and 15% from Eagan. The remaining percentage
come from Apple Valley, Rosemount, and communities such as Prior Lake,
Richfield, Bloomington, St. Paul, Inver Grove, Farmington, and even
Minneapolis. In response to questions, she replied the usual percentage from
Eagan is from between 17% and 23%. She stated that the publicity for the
skating school is very minimal, due to the overwhelming popularity already
achieved. Informational fliers at the last day of the regular session
encourages some students to sign up again for the next session. Publicity is
primarily through word of mouth and a short informational article contained in
the Burnsville School District Community Educational brochure.
Relative to the cost of the program, the fee is $31.00 per student, which
includes eight (8) lessons of 1/2 hour length and eight (8) 1/2 hour practice
sessions. This fee covers all costs for the instructors and ice time and
often returns a small profit to the rink over and above all costs. If the
skaters were interested in proceeding beyond the "learn to skate" program,
also offered is a beginning patch and free style class, which is more
expensive due to the limited number of skaters able to be placed on the ice
at one time. This program allows skaters to further refine their interest and
to determine if they are ready to advance into the figure skating club. She
continued, stating that the figure skating club also has a restricted number
of members at any one time due to limited space. Increasing membership would
simply reduce the amount of ice time skaters would receive, and is not the
object of a competitive program involved in the skating club. A junior club
has been started, and they too would like to have more ice time, or offer
classes for adults, rather than just children. In response to several
questions, it was indicated that an ice skating show is offered in conjunction
with the program. Peg Hasset indicated that skating should not just be
reviewed as a competive program as offered by the skating club, but as a
learning and enjoyable experience for children and adults. This program
allows people to determine what their interest levels are and advance in
skating as far as they wish to.
After additional questions and discussions, Chairman Martin thanked those
present for their participation and information. He stated that he felt the
Commission members had gained a great deal of information and knowledge
concerning the various activities and program offerings and the need for such
a facility.
The Commission adjourned at 9:50 P.M.
Date:
Commit ee ecre ary
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