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03/25/1987 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION COMMUNITY CENTER STUDY COMMITTEE MARCH 25, 1987 The meeting of the Community Center Study Committee was called to order at 7:00 P.M. by Roger Martin, Chairman. Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, introduced the session, indicating that the meeting was intended as a "listening session", to obtain additional information regarding the needs and interests of the community. He explained the process of the meeting, which would be a series of presenters through the evening, allowing sufficient time for questions and answers. Mr. Vraa introduced the first panel, consisting of Mr. Russ Fraenkel and Mr. Pete Kelzenberg, both of School District #196, Community Education Department. Representatives of RAVE Swim Club, including Mr. Loren Carlson and Mrs. Fred McGinty. Mr. Fraenkel presented a grid schedule indicating utilization of the gym space within the school district. He indicated that the peak time is the winter quarter with heavy usage by the various associations and park and recreation agencies. He indicated that it was difficult to assess the impact of the new schools or to anticipate the demand to which it they would be used. Mr. Fraenkel then discussed other use issues which were developing regarding community education. This included after school enrichment programs for latch key children and pre-school children. He stated that if these programs were to be instigated, they would place an additional burden on space. For example, scouting activities are currently hampered by the lack of available school gym space and might be further limited if excluded from the schools as a result of these new programs. In response to questions, Mr. Fraenkel indicated that "in-house" programs and booster club programs, which would like to be able to use the school facilities, and are currently being restricted by the lack of space availability. Mr. Kelzenberg, School District #196, Swimming Pool Director, viewed the swimming pool situation. He indicated that community education can not use the space, until 5:00 P.M., due to school day swim activities. He stated that of the 630 participants in the swim program this session, 219 are from Eagan. He stated that all, sessions are now filled, and many people are turned away for each session. Commission member Bertz, confirmed this, that she, herself, had been turned away three successive registrations and now travel to West St. Paul for swim instruction. Mr. Kelzenberg presented an overview of the program and how"it was hampered by the lack of suitable swim time. He stated that the swim program was limited and does not offer as broad of variety of classes as could be. He also discussed the limitations the size of the pool - 25 metres and the depth has on the programs offered. Mr. Jim Ertle, Rosemount High Swim Coach, also reviewed the swimming pool issue, stating that swimmers often swim from 5:00 A.M. to 7:00 A.M., prior to school, and after the school day is over. He mentioned that with the high demand for usage there was a limit to how many could participate in the swim program. Today, the school district has a policy of restricting cuts to sports teams, however, in the area of swimming this has had to be the case due to size and time limitations. There are numerous questions by the Commission members directed to Mr. Kelzenberg and Mr. Ertle regarding pool usage, and space, etc. 1 Mr. Carlson, RAVE Swim Team, stated their objectives for a competitive program and of the difficulties in obtaining active pool time. He stated that the 4A Swim Club is relatively small, directly as a result of an inability to obtain swimming pool time. Approximately 40% of the Club are residents of Eagan. He stated that in the summertime, the swim club swims outdoors at Richfield, where they have to rent the swimming pool. He mentioned that this pool is beneficial, due to the fact that it is a 50 meter pool. Mr. Carlson and Mrs. McGinty responded to numerous questions regarding: time of day, cost factors, and travel problems associated with the swim program. In response to a question, it was noted that there are perhaps only three indoor 50 meter pools in the metropolitan area, although there are numerous outdoor swimming pools and diving wells connected to these pools. He felt that the swim program would definitely grow if there was more room and space availability, and that Minnesota is a state that is very interested in swimming. In response to questions, he noted that a swimming pool that could host swim meets with a larger seating capacity, would benefit the competive program, but would also benefit recreational swimmers, by providing larger surface space and better swim depths. It was noted that a 50 metre pool, with a diving well next to it, would not only have more space, but a lower depth to enhance pool instruction. A diving well would facilitate such programs as scuba classes, warm up area, and an additional teaching station not currently offered within the school program. In response to a question from Mr. Caponi, regarding what would be a recommendation from the swim group, he responded, that a 50 metre pool with a separate diving well, with sufficient spectator and teaching space would be appropriate. After additional questions and comments regarding the need for a swimming pool, the first panel was adjourned. Members of the Eagan and the Rosemount Area Hockey Associations spoke next. Mr. Bob Smith, of the Eagan Hockey Association, stated that his Association represents residents who live in Eagan, but are primarily in the Burnsville/Eagan School District. Mr. Smith distributed a handout indicating the hours of ice time usage in the month of January. He stated that 250 hours of ice time were used during the season and that 300 to 350 ice time hours were required. These hours were not available, in spite of the fact that the Association had contracted with five (5) different ice arenas. He stated that Apple Valley and Burnsville had the closest facilities, but neither had ice time available. Mr. Smith stated that the Association had a 20% growth during the past six (6) years, but the past two (2) years have been the most significant. He stated that this growth had been predominately the younger age groups. He mentioned that the Association had spent approximately $20,000 in ice time during the 1986-87 season, but the largest need for ice was in the early fall and winter months, when outdoor ice time is not available. He stated that the Association is primarily pick-up recreation hockey leagues, few travel teams. Mr. Smith. continued stating that the Association was not only interested in an ice arena, but also saw the need for other facilities, such as a community room, which could accommodate groups of up to 500 people. He stated that usage of such a facility would include: adult recreation hockey, as is offered in other communities. There were numerous questions by Commission members regarding the hours of usage, participants in the leagues, ice time costs, the differences between prime-time and non-prime time ice, etc. S 2 y ..y Mr. Bob Beutow, President of the Rosemount Hockey Association, reviewed that the Rosemount Association had twenty-seven (27) teams, which used 650 hours of indoor ice at an average rate of $80.00 per hour in 1986-87. He stated that they had spent nearly $50,000 in ice time at eight (8) ice arenas. Also, that the Association had originally desired 950 hours of indoor ice time, but could only be accommodated for 650. He stated that 400 youth are in their program, with approximately 35 to 40% from Eagan. He mentioned that the Association has had a growth rate in the last two years of approximately 20%. Their ice time begins at approximately 6:00 A.M. and goes to starting times of 9:45 P.M. for the older Bantam and Midget ages. Currently, the Association is offering a spring league, which encompasses one hundred ten (110) children registered in five teams. This ice time will begin in late March and run through early May, and will be conducted in St. Louis Park. Messrs. Smith and Beutow spoke regarding the need for ice time and other uses, including recreation league, open hockey, open skate, broomball, and possibly intermural ice time by schools. He stated that other facilities are using artificial turf for indoor soccer during the summer. Mr. Beutow and Mr. Smith stated that the recently approved school bond referendum for a high school would increase participation levels in hockey, and would undoubtedly increase the demand for ice time. In response to a question, it was noted that funding for ice time is from fund raising and in-house program fees. Mr. Beutow replied to a questions on girls hockey/Ringettes, which will be a 1988 Olympic sport. Information was given on the game and of the girl's interest in the program, and again the lack of ice time. Mr. Smith and Mr. Beutow also discussed for the Commission the economic benefit of hockey tournaments, which brings families into the community for food, lodging, etc. In response to a question, members of the hockey panel suggested that a multi-purpose structure be used as a community center, which might include one or possible two ice sheets. This should include community rooms, and ample seating. There were additional questions, and responses between the Advisory Commission and the Panel, after which Mr. Gary Pietig and Mr. Gary Harker, Ice Arena managers, were next presented. Mr. Gary Pietig introduced himself, as the manager of the City of Apple Valley's Sports Center, a resident of the City of Eagan, and a parent of a hockey participant. He mentioned that the Apple Valley facility was built with funds from both City and School District. A joint power agreement provided for a 50/50 funding split for operation and ice use. This is a multi- purpose facility, which facilitates tennis in the summer, and special events, such as AAU wrestling, dog shows, which attracted over 1,500 participants with dogs from different states, antique and craft shows. A recent survey by Apple Valley indicated that over 100,000 people, as spectators or users, were involved in the center last year. While it was built as an ice arena, it has become a good will ambassador for-the City and is the second most recognized facility, next to the Apple Valley Zoo, for which the City receives recognition. He stated that the school district uses the facility in the daytime for physical education and other programs. The school district has girls skating teams, ice shows, and also tennis programs when the ice is not available. 3 Mr. Gary Harker, of Burnsville, reviewed the two ice sheet concept currently in place at the Burnsville Ice Arena, stating that the first facility opened in 1972 at a cost of 1 Million Dollars, and a second sheet was added with a fall opening of 1985, with the sale of revenue bonds for approximately 2 Million Dollars. This went for the cost of construction, as well as a sinking fund. The 2nd Addition cost approximately 1.5 Million. Mr. Harker stated the Burnsville Athletic 'Club consumes approximately 25% of the available ice time within the two sheets. The Figure Skating Club consumes 27% and the High School, approximately 5%. Other uses include: broomball, individual usage, summer hockey schools, learn-to-skate programs, senior leagues, public skating, and the annual ice show. Mr. Harker stated that the facility has been an asset to the community, and a strong focal point for the City. He stated that business community is supportive of the center, as it brings money into the community with the various summer hockey programs, and three hockey tournaments that were held this past year. Mr. Harker stated that if a facility can cover operating expenses, it is doing well. In response to questions, Mr. Harker stated that over years previous to this second sheet, the ice arena's greatest loss was $14,000 one year, and revenues the next were in excess of expenses of $11,000. In 1986, two sheets of ice produced an income over expenses of $50,000. However, this fell short of expectations and the need to cover the interest for the bonds. In response to questions, the ice arena manager stated that adequate seating would mean approximately 1,500 seats. Mr. Harker responded to several questions regarding prime-time hours, hourly rates, staff needed to run the facility, and other similar questions. It was noted that a vending service produces revenues of $15,000 each year, and other sources of income include: hockey equipment sales, and skate sharpening. Mr. Pietig stated that ice arena facilities are more than just ice arenas, and can be used for a number of other activities. In response to a question, he felt that the Apple Valley facility could provide a broader range of programs, were it not for the fact that the ice time is difficult to obtain. After additional questions and discussions between the ice arena manager and the Advisory Commission, the panel was dismissed and Mrs. Peg Hasset, Eagan resident and Jan Vraa, Director of the Burnsville Skating School next presented. Mrs. Peg Hasset stated that she had been involved in the "Learn to Skate" program, that was offered by Burnsville, and it's value to her family. She stated that it has been a social and educational benefit to her children, and has provided a chance for coordination, movement, and motor skills development to help them overcome numerous problems. She mentioned that it appeared that the, Advisory Commission is the business of recreation, which promotes health and wellness and that this "Learn to Skate" program has done just that in Burnsville. She indicated that her children have expanded their interest from just figure skating to include speed skating as a logical offshoot. Mrs. Hasset then viewed aspects of the figure skating club at the Burnsville Skating facility. Jan Vraa, Director of the Burnsville Skating School, spoke next, stating that participation has grown from 600 to nearly 1,500 students per year. The current spring session is the largest ever, with 505 students. The hours of the program are fitted into three days a week, with the majority of the ice time on Saturday mornings. Sessions are also conducted Wednesday morning, and Wednesday evening. 4 She stated the instructional school hires six (6) to seven (7) instructors for each of the sessions. She indicated that the Burnsville Skating School is probably the most successful in the State, as represented by the numbers of students involved. Growth in the school has been limited due to the lack of ice time, and the classes usually fill up within a day or two of when registration opens. She commented that 58% of the registrants in the spring session are from Burnsville, and 15% from Eagan. The remaining percentage come from Apple Valley, Rosemount, and communities such as Prior Lake, Richfield, Bloomington, St. Paul, Inver Grove, Farmington, and even Minneapolis. In response to questions, she replied the usual percentage from Eagan is from between 17% and 23%. She stated that the publicity for the skating school is very minimal, due to the overwhelming popularity already achieved. Informational fliers at the last day of the regular session encourages some students to sign up again for the next session. Publicity is primarily through word of mouth and a short informational article contained in the Burnsville School District Community Educational brochure. Relative to the cost of the program, the fee is $31.00 per student, which includes eight (8) lessons of 1/2 hour length and eight (8) 1/2 hour practice sessions. This fee covers all costs for the instructors and ice time and often returns a small profit to the rink over and above all costs. If the skaters were interested in proceeding beyond the "learn to skate" program, also offered is a beginning patch and free style class, which is more expensive due to the limited number of skaters able to be placed on the ice at one time. This program allows skaters to further refine their interest and to determine if they are ready to advance into the figure skating club. She continued, stating that the figure skating club also has a restricted number of members at any one time due to limited space. Increasing membership would simply reduce the amount of ice time skaters would receive, and is not the object of a competitive program involved in the skating club. A junior club has been started, and they too would like to have more ice time, or offer classes for adults, rather than just children. In response to several questions, it was indicated that an ice skating show is offered in conjunction with the program. Peg Hasset indicated that skating should not just be reviewed as a competive program as offered by the skating club, but as a learning and enjoyable experience for children and adults. This program allows people to determine what their interest levels are and advance in skating as far as they wish to. After additional questions and discussions, Chairman Martin thanked those present for their participation and information. He stated that he felt the Commission members had gained a great deal of information and knowledge concerning the various activities and program offerings and the need for such a facility. The Commission adjourned at 9:50 P.M. Date: Commit ee ecre ary 5