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04/02/1987 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA April 2, 1987 A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order by Chairman Martin at 7:00 p.m. Members present were Alt, Sames, Porter, Thurston, Caponi, Carroll, Masin and Martin. Staff present were Director of Parks and Recreation Ken Vraa and John VonDeLinde, Superintendent of Parks. Other visitors were present for specific agenda items. AGENDA On a motion by Porter, seconded by Thurston, with all members voting in favor, the agenda was approved. MINUTES OF MARCH 5, 1987 A motion by Carroll, seconded by Sames, with all members voting in favor, the Minutes of March 5, 1987 were approved. SPECIAL MEETING OF MARCH 25, 1987 Motion by Porter, seconded by Alt, with all members voting in favor, the minutes of the Special Meeting of March 25th, 1987, were approved. CONSENT AGENDA The following Consent Agenda items were presented for approval. A motion by Caponi, seconded by Carroll, with all members voting in favor, all items were approved. 1. Woodhaven Addition on 4.58 acres That this plat be subject to a cash dedication and a trail on Lexington Avenue. 2. Silver Bell Second Addition -'This commercial plat of 13.68 be subject to a cash dedication for commerical/industrial property. 3.-Cliff Road Shops - This plat be subject to a cash dedication for commercial/industrial property and for a trail on Cliff Road. 4. W. & M. Nelson - Request for rezoning be approved and be subject to a cash dedication requirement for the commercial industrial property. 5. School District 196/City Park - That the rezoning of preliminary plat for 28.43 acres for an elementary school and city park be approved. This approval subject to the 18.43 acres, which is designated for the elementary school, shall be subject to a parks dedication requirement at such time as the property discontinue its function as a public school. ,~v Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 2 6. Thomas Lake Replat - That this plat be subject to a cash dedication for platted lots prior to 1983, and for trailway on Cliff Road. OVERVIEW/SECOND ADDITION Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the proposed parcel of .98 acres for single family use. It was noted that the Commission's packet contained a letter with signatures of adjacent residents to this parcel requesting that the Advisory Commission recommend and purchase this parcel for park use. Debra Schrad of 4332 Stirrup Street spoke for a number of residents in the audience. She stated that they had initiated the petition in hopes of having the Advisory Commission consider tI)isparcel for a neighborhood park. That there is a large number of preschool and early age school children in the neighborhood and that the closest park is one half mile from the residence and access is via a busy street. She stated she understood that the City is generally opposed to small parks but that this is an instance where there is such a large number of children, the park might be warranted. She stated the neighborhood would be interested in assisting in maintaining the site as homeowners if this is a concern of the Commission. Af ter additional presentation, Chairman Martin stated that he was generally opposed regarding the acquisition of this parcel, particularly because of the small size. Further, that while he appreciated the interest of the neighborhood to maintain the park, this may change in the future particularly when existing homeowners move. Commission member Carroll stated that he too had some serious concerns and reservations about this as a park based on its size and location and proximity to Dodd Road. Chairman Martin and other Commission members questioned what the topography, vegetation and existing conditions were like. Mr. Porter stated that he had visited the site and noted that it-is generally a low area in the middle but otherwise relatively flat. He stated he felt the parcel was too small for athletic or general park useage and would only be useable for play equipment. In response to a question, the Director of Parks and Recreation responded that there will indeed be play equipment at Trapp Farm Park. The original intention was to have it available this year. Thereafter, there were several questions and concerns expressed for the location of the play equipment and access to Trapp Farm Park without identified walking trails because of traffic. Mr. Porter stated that he is concerned because the proposed parcel is land locked by platted lots and would require an easement for a trailway between homes in order to gain access. Otherwise, the only access would be Dodd Road. Without a trailway, children would be encouraged to cut through back yards. Member Caponi stated that the audience had expressed a concern for small childrens useage and this seemed not a good place for small children because of the road adjacent to the park. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa was asked to respond to the issue of trailways and easements relative to access to Trapp Farm Park or this parcel. Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 3 A member of the audience questioned that if this parcel was an outlot, how is it that it could now be platted for a single family home? He stated that many in the neighborhood had been told that as an outlot, it would not be developed. Members of the staff responded to his question after which time members of the audience asked if any one knew what the cost of the parcel would be. Chairman Martin stated that again the parcel was relatively small and would provide for only singular use purpose and he too was concerned about access to the park. Members of the audience stated that Eagan is a bunch of small communities and no one else would care about the need for a neighborhood park within this neighborhood other than the Commission. He asked the Commission to look after all of the community within the City and be concerned as much for parks in this neighborhood as any location. There was additional discussion between the Advisory Commission and residents of the neighborhood. A resident asked the Commission to at least study the issue even though it understood the.,concerns for having such a small park and it virtually being land locked. Chairman Martin stated it appeared the Commission had only one of three alternatives and one would be to ask the Council to delay this item until the Commission had sufficient time to review the possibilities of trail access to Trapp Farm Park. He is generally not in favor of the City acquiring this parcel, but the issue should be reviewed. After some discussion, a motion by Martin, seconded by Carroll, the Advisory Commission asked to seek the council to defer a decision on this particular preliminary plat until such time as staff has had an opportunity to review possible routes to Trapp Farm Park or other park areas for play opportunities. All members voted in favor. BRITTANY 10TH ADDITION Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the proposed Brittany 10th Addition compassing approximately 17 acres. Mr. Vraa indicated that this development was in Park Service Section 33 which has already received approximately one half of the required parks dedication in the Walden Heights Addition. The City staff is concerned that a continual parceling off of the entire 80 acre Brown parcel, that the City would be left with insufficient area to require.a land dedication to complete the neighborhood park facility. After additional explanations, the Director indicated that the Planning Commission defer further action on this particular plat until the next Planning Commission meeting also requesting that an overall development proposal be shown on the remaining land. Commission member Carroll said he was familiar with the site indicating a low ponding area to the north of this development. There was additional discussion regarding roadways and traffic connections and whether the City could require the developer to make a land dedication at this time. Member Martin stated he felt it was imperative that the City assure that the park land in it's entirety is met and saw no reason why this development shouldn't be required to provide for such dedication. Members questioned why it would not be adviseable to see the entire parcel laid out as the Planning Commission had requested before it determine the full park needs. It was questioned if a recordable document at the County Recorder's Office could not be developed which would require the land to be dedicated. If not now, at least sometime in the future? Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 4 In response to a question, the Director indicated that 10% of this particular plat, being 1.7 acres, would be insufficient to begin development of the park. However, there would be a time after certain additional land dedication, the park could at least be graded and seeded. After additional discussion, it was motioned by Mr. Caponi, seconded by Mr. Porter, that the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council that a land dedication or a legally binding contract on the remaining land be made which would provide for additional land dedication for Walden Heights Park. All members voted in favor. Members also asked that this item appear again on the Commission agenda to review the overall site plan for the parks. HIDDEN VALLEY 'Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, reviewed the proposed preliminary plat entitled Hidden Valley Addition. In describing the parcel, the Director noted that there was a 2.5 acre proposed park land dedication to provide for trails opportunity at a high point. While the park land parcel is somewhat isolated, it ties in with an overall green space connecting the Municipal Center at Patrick Eagan Park. Mr. Mike Gair, a representative for Graham Development, introduced himself. He stated that while Graham Development had not done any developing within Eagan, he has done a significant number of projects within the City of Apple Valley and Burnsville. Mr. Gair further explained the parcel, its location and topography and stated the park land parcel had a knoll or knob as its feature. He stated that from this particular vantage point, it gave a rather attractive and unique relationship of the overall area. Several members questioned the value of the dedication relative to the overall requirements for this parcel. Director of Parks and Recreation explained that as part of his recommendation, the land dedication be accepted. but that the project also be required to make a cash dedication equivalent to one half of the required amount. 'Further, that a trail be benched inbetween lots 11 and 12. Member Carroll questioned the topography of the area for such a trail. Review by Mr. Gair and Staff concluded that this was at a grade of approximately 4% which was well within the grades for trails. Commission members also discussed the width of the proposed area to provide for the trail. Mr. Gair. explained that at least 15 feet could be dedicated and still meet the City's requirements for set backs- and lot sizes. After additional discussion, Member Thurston commented that she was comfortable with the dedication requirements and that staff could work out the trail between Lots 11 and 12 with the developer. A motion by Thurston, seconded by Carroll, with a recommendation of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission that this development 1) make a 2.1 acre dedication, 2) a cash dedication equivalent to one half of the required amount, 3) a trail between Lots 11 and 12 extending from the culdesac to the park area and 4) a trail on Pilot Knob Road. All members in favor. Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 5 COMMUNITY ROOM USE REGULATIONS Member Masin excused herself from the meeting at this time. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the Staff Memorandum concerning the Community Room Use Regulations. He stated that while the City has had the regulation for some time, a reviewal seemed appropriate particularly because of the number of requests that have come in regarding continous or successive use. Commission Member Caponi stated he was concerned about the use of public buildings by "transient church groups" and questioned who would approve the use of the buildings for extended useage. Director Vraa responded that the current policy establishes priority for use of the Community Rooms but the City and Parks and Recreation programs more priority. Successive use would be the last priority. Member Caponi stated that the City needed to develop a rational for a policy so there is little decision making responsibility associated with the room useage. There was additional explanation of the current useage pattern at the Fire Administration Building and other elements within the current useage policy after which Mr. Caponi stated that rental should be approved on a daily basis, which would avoid one group from dominating this facility. Member Porter stated that City functions should always have first priority within the facilities. Member Carroll felt it would be a burden to take daily requests for an organization that wished to use it for successive days if it would not conflict with any City program or already planned useage. Useage may be competitive enough to preclude any long term use. After additional discussion and review of the policy direction of the Commission, Chairman Martin surmised the discussion by saying that it appears we should continue to use the existing policy for another month. Ask staff to establish and refine additional guidelines and priorities for reservations for reviewal next month. He concluded that the Commission has the consenses that relaxing of a policy prohibiting the successive or continous use is agreeable but only under certain specific guidelines. STORM SEWER CONTRACTS/PATRICK EAGAN PARK & NORTHVIEW PARK Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the history of the projects in question, which the. Commission had reviewed several months previously. Because the'Commission had specifically requested an update for the final plans and specifications were developed. Related to Northview Park, construction of the storm sewer line into the park from Lexington Square Addition, will flood this pond including the parking lot adjacent area. In response to the concern of staff and commission, three steps are being taken to reduce and minimize the impact of the possible flooding situation. These include the school district being required to contain ponding within their site which will drain into the pond, 2) enlargement of the pond to increase capacity and 3) reduction of the requirement for acre feet ponding purposes. This reduction would be transferred to Patrick Eagan Park which would have less of an impact than at Northview. Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 6 Commission member Thurston questioned who pays for the cost of the dredging for enlargement of the pond. Director Vraa stated he felt the benefits would be to the park as well as to the City's storm sewer system and in this instance we would pay for that in conjunction with parks development. There were numerous questions regarding sizing and depth of storm sewer and its location after which Director of Public Works, Tom Colbert, reviewed the drainage plan of Mooney Lake into Patrick Eagan Park. It was stated the line would be installed very shallow at a depth from 3 to 5 feet with a maximum out of 8 feet. The City would be using PVC piping which would further reduce the disruption to the site as a result of being able to move in the lighter, less difficult to handle material versus the typical concrete. Small clean-outs versus manhole catch basins would also be used. Control elevation of JP8 would be 819.2 which was the elevation of the pond in January of this year. A gravity outlet connects this pond to the larger McCarthy Lake area which has a high water elevation of 830. Mr. Colbert then reviewed the ponding elevations of all the ponds within the storm sewer district noting that the reduction of the Northview Pond of 10 acre feet would increase the 100 year fixed elevation at McCarthy by approximately 3". In response to questions, Mr. Colbert stated they would take between 10 days and .2 weeks to get the 830 elevation down to its normal ponding level if the 100 year occurrence would happen. Member Martin asked what the controlling factor was and how the water got out of McCarthy Lake. Mr. Colbert stated there is a lift station further down the stream which was the determining factor. He stated that one pump is in place and provisions have been made for a second pump after full development. Mr. Martin asked if plans were in the making for this pump to be installed soon inasmuch as drainage district development now being platted. Mr. Colbert stated such plans were in the making. Members of the Advisory Commission expressed their support and asked if there was any action they needed to take in order to facilitate the undertaking and the importance of the installation of this pump as it would impact City parks. Commission member Capons questioned what happened to the other option of an overground storm drain; did the staff study this issue? He asked if this was a change in direction and why the Commission had not been informed of it. Director Vraa responded this was the purpose of this meeting to explain this issue and what studies had been done. Mr. Colbert reviewed the topography of the area. He clearly indicated that overland drainage does not fall directly to the park but would go to the north and encroach upon property not currently owned by the City. Overland drainage would be possible only the last two to three hundred feet which was at a slope of approximately 3 to 1. Because of concern for the issue of erosion, the pipe was being extended to the pond. Mr. Colbert and Mr. Vraa stated that the shallow depth of the storm sewer and the use of PVC piping would allow the Commission to come back at a later time and provide for an overland stream if it so desired. Members of the Commission stated that this was a logical alternative particularly because of the concern for erosion because of the steep grade. Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 7 Mr. Colbert then explained the storm sewer project as it would affect Evergreen Park. After explanation, he stated that the City anticipated a July construction for these projects. Mr. Martin questioned what other ponds or lakes were within City park lands where there is no down stream outlet and flooding might be expected to occur. Mr. Colbert stated that he felt only two parks, Wescott Station and the pond on the Highline Trail were within park land areas which did not have down stream outlets. There was additional discussion by the Advisory Commission and Mr. Colbert regarding storm sewer ponding, and the storm sewer plan. Mr. Martin and other Commission members stated that they were interested in this particular topic because of their concern for the impact of storm sewer ponding on pond park land and the detrimental effects of erosion. Mr. Colbert stated the Commission's concerns were appreciated and feels the Engineering .Department and Consulting Engineering Firm are more sensitive to the issues raised by the Advisory Commission and staff. ARBOR DAY PROCLAMATION The Superintendent of Parks, John VonDeLinde, presented a draft of the Proclamation supporting Arbor Day as was requested by the Advisory Commission at the last meeting. On a motion by Carroll, seconded by Sames, with all members voting in favor, Commission members adopted the resolution supporting Arbor Day and Arbor Month. LCMR/L.A.W.C.O.N.-BLACKHAWK PARK Director of Vraa reviewed the 1988 LAWCON application indicating that a May 4th deadline had been set for preliminary grant applications. After review and discussion, a motion by Carroll, seconded by Sames, with all members voting in favor, staff was directed to submit an application for the development of Blackhawk Park as the City's highest park priority in park development. PARK SITE REVIEW-PARK SERVICE SECTION 25W Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, stated that Mr. Jim Curry had offered a parcel of land north of Cliff Road, west of Highway 3, which might be suitable for park purposes. An overview was displayed showing the parcel and topography of the area which included an exception. There was general questioning and discussion of the parcel. Several members indicated they were familiar with the site; others indicated they were not aware of this particular parcel and its park benefits. Chairman Martin stated he does not feel it would fit into the Park's plan. Member Carroll stated the topography was quite steep and would preclude to development although it is an attractive parcel. On a motion by Porter, seconded by Carroll, members declined to initiate an offer for the parcel. Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 8 PARKS DEVELOPMENT UPDATE Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, updated the Advisory Commission on the planned bid opening dates for park shelter buildings grading, etc.. It was noted that the parks grading contracts are being delayed at this time as a result of requirement from the Department of Natural Resources for a boat ramp permit onto Thomas Lake. OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, reviewed the. administration for spring programs noting the programs have been very popular and had filled quite rapidly. It was again expected there would be problems in space utilization because of the growth in all age levels for spring sports. Chairman Martin questioned the use of soccer fields and the status of availability of these for adult useage. Relative to the Community Center, Director Vraa stated perhaps a second listening session to hear of other needs might be appropriate. Further, that a sample survey to assess community interest and perceptions about a community center might be appropriate at a later time. Preliminary staff research into this area will be presented at a later date. Chairman Martin indicated the interest being generated by a larger group of people in the community center didn't feel it necessary to repeat the listening session to hear more about swimming pools, ice arenas or gymnasiums. Director Vraa stated that it might then be appropriate to then just look internally to see other alternatives within the City which might include Planning, Police, Parks and Recreation, etc.. Member Caponi stated that we needed to show other groups where the Commission is at in the development and summation of the materials at this time seemed appropriate. Commission members agreed that summation data should be refined at this time. Chairman Martin then stated that the enthusiasm so far might be appropriate to dovetail a bond referendum sometime between the winter and summer of the 1988 Olympics. After additional discussion, Mr. Vraa stated he felt it was the Commission's consensus to assemble the details so far collected and to summarize them in concise paragraph form. JOINT MEETING Director Vraa announced that the City of Apple Valley, Burnsville and Lakeville were planning a Joint Commission Meeting on Thursday, May 21st, at Trapp Farm Park. jl~ a:alar •.Z^.aaL~. z' •C L r. .,n . i'..,L _ _ = w s..l,;Firae..Y -,J: ...:E,:u::£iy..: Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm. April 2, 1987 Page 9 ADJOURNMENT There being no further business of the Advisory Commission, on a motion by Carroll, seconded by Porter, with all members voting in favor, the Regular Advisory Commission Meeting of April 2nd, 1987, was adjourned at 10:50 p.m. KV Date dv isory Parks & Recrea on Secre ary