04/02/1987 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE
ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
April 2, 1987
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
was called to order by Chairman Martin at 7:00 p.m. Members present were Alt,
Sames, Porter, Thurston, Caponi, Carroll, Masin and Martin. Staff present
were Director of Parks and Recreation Ken Vraa and John VonDeLinde,
Superintendent of Parks. Other visitors were present for specific agenda
items.
AGENDA
On a motion by Porter, seconded by Thurston, with all members voting
in favor, the agenda was approved.
MINUTES OF MARCH 5, 1987
A motion by Carroll, seconded by Sames, with all members voting in
favor, the Minutes of March 5, 1987 were approved.
SPECIAL MEETING OF MARCH 25, 1987
Motion by Porter, seconded by Alt, with all members voting in favor,
the minutes of the Special Meeting of March 25th, 1987, were approved.
CONSENT AGENDA
The following Consent Agenda items were presented for approval. A
motion by Caponi, seconded by Carroll, with all members voting in favor, all
items were approved.
1. Woodhaven Addition on 4.58 acres That this plat be subject to a cash
dedication and a trail on Lexington Avenue.
2. Silver Bell Second Addition -'This commercial plat of 13.68 be subject to
a cash dedication for commerical/industrial property.
3.-Cliff Road Shops - This plat be subject to a cash dedication for
commercial/industrial property and for a trail on Cliff Road.
4. W. & M. Nelson - Request for rezoning be approved and be subject to a
cash dedication requirement for the commercial industrial property.
5. School District 196/City Park - That the rezoning of preliminary plat for
28.43 acres for an elementary school and city park be approved. This approval
subject to the 18.43 acres, which is designated for the elementary school,
shall be subject to a parks dedication requirement at such time as the
property discontinue its function as a public school.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 2
6. Thomas Lake Replat - That this plat be subject to a cash dedication for
platted lots prior to 1983, and for trailway on Cliff Road.
OVERVIEW/SECOND ADDITION
Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the proposed parcel
of .98 acres for single family use. It was noted that the Commission's packet
contained a letter with signatures of adjacent residents to this parcel
requesting that the Advisory Commission recommend and purchase this parcel for
park use.
Debra Schrad of 4332 Stirrup Street spoke for a number of residents
in the audience. She stated that they had initiated the petition in hopes of
having the Advisory Commission consider tI)isparcel for a neighborhood park.
That there is a large number of preschool and early age school children in the
neighborhood and that the closest park is one half mile from the residence
and access is via a busy street. She stated she understood that the City is
generally opposed to small parks but that this is an instance where there is
such a large number of children, the park might be warranted. She stated the
neighborhood would be interested in assisting in maintaining the site as
homeowners if this is a concern of the Commission. Af ter additional
presentation, Chairman Martin stated that he was generally opposed regarding
the acquisition of this parcel, particularly because of the small size.
Further, that while he appreciated the interest of the neighborhood to
maintain the park, this may change in the future particularly when existing
homeowners move. Commission member Carroll stated that he too had some
serious concerns and reservations about this as a park based on its size and
location and proximity to Dodd Road. Chairman Martin and other Commission
members questioned what the topography, vegetation and existing conditions
were like.
Mr. Porter stated that he had visited the site and noted that it-is
generally a low area in the middle but otherwise relatively flat. He stated
he felt the parcel was too small for athletic or general park useage and would
only be useable for play equipment. In response to a question, the Director
of Parks and Recreation responded that there will indeed be play equipment at
Trapp Farm Park. The original intention was to have it available this year.
Thereafter, there were several questions and concerns expressed for the
location of the play equipment and access to Trapp Farm Park without
identified walking trails because of traffic. Mr. Porter stated that he is
concerned because the proposed parcel is land locked by platted lots and would
require an easement for a trailway between homes in order to gain access.
Otherwise, the only access would be Dodd Road. Without a trailway, children
would be encouraged to cut through back yards. Member Caponi stated that the
audience had expressed a concern for small childrens useage and this seemed
not a good place for small children because of the road adjacent to the park.
Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa was asked to respond to the issue of
trailways and easements relative to access to Trapp Farm Park or this parcel.
Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 3
A member of the audience questioned that if this parcel was an
outlot, how is it that it could now be platted for a single family home? He
stated that many in the neighborhood had been told that as an outlot, it would
not be developed. Members of the staff responded to his question after which
time members of the audience asked if any one knew what the cost of the parcel
would be. Chairman Martin stated that again the parcel was relatively small
and would provide for only singular use purpose and he too was concerned about
access to the park. Members of the audience stated that Eagan is a bunch of
small communities and no one else would care about the need for a neighborhood
park within this neighborhood other than the Commission. He asked the
Commission to look after all of the community within the City and be concerned
as much for parks in this neighborhood as any location.
There was additional discussion between the Advisory Commission and
residents of the neighborhood. A resident asked the Commission to at least
study the issue even though it understood the.,concerns for having such a small
park and it virtually being land locked. Chairman Martin stated it appeared
the Commission had only one of three alternatives and one would be to ask the
Council to delay this item until the Commission had sufficient time to review
the possibilities of trail access to Trapp Farm Park. He is generally not in
favor of the City acquiring this parcel, but the issue should be reviewed.
After some discussion, a motion by Martin, seconded by Carroll, the
Advisory Commission asked to seek the council to defer a decision on this
particular preliminary plat until such time as staff has had an opportunity to
review possible routes to Trapp Farm Park or other park areas for play
opportunities. All members voted in favor.
BRITTANY 10TH ADDITION
Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the proposed Brittany
10th Addition compassing approximately 17 acres. Mr. Vraa indicated that this
development was in Park Service Section 33 which has already received
approximately one half of the required parks dedication in the Walden Heights
Addition. The City staff is concerned that a continual parceling off of the
entire 80 acre Brown parcel, that the City would be left with insufficient
area to require.a land dedication to complete the neighborhood park facility.
After additional explanations, the Director indicated that the Planning
Commission defer further action on this particular plat until the next
Planning Commission meeting also requesting that an overall development
proposal be shown on the remaining land.
Commission member Carroll said he was familiar with the site
indicating a low ponding area to the north of this development. There was
additional discussion regarding roadways and traffic connections and whether
the City could require the developer to make a land dedication at this time.
Member Martin stated he felt it was imperative that the City assure that the
park land in it's entirety is met and saw no reason why this development
shouldn't be required to provide for such dedication. Members questioned why
it would not be adviseable to see the entire parcel laid out as the Planning
Commission had requested before it determine the full park needs. It was
questioned if a recordable document at the County Recorder's Office could not
be developed which would require the land to be dedicated. If not now, at
least sometime in the future?
Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 4
In response to a question, the Director indicated that 10% of this
particular plat, being 1.7 acres, would be insufficient to begin development
of the park. However, there would be a time after certain additional land
dedication, the park could at least be graded and seeded. After additional
discussion, it was motioned by Mr. Caponi, seconded by Mr. Porter, that the
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council that a
land dedication or a legally binding contract on the remaining land be made
which would provide for additional land dedication for Walden Heights Park.
All members voted in favor. Members also asked that this item appear again on
the Commission agenda to review the overall site plan for the parks.
HIDDEN VALLEY
'Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, reviewed the proposed
preliminary plat entitled Hidden Valley Addition. In describing the parcel,
the Director noted that there was a 2.5 acre proposed park land dedication to
provide for trails opportunity at a high point. While the park land parcel is
somewhat isolated, it ties in with an overall green space connecting the
Municipal Center at Patrick Eagan Park. Mr. Mike Gair, a representative for
Graham Development, introduced himself. He stated that while Graham
Development had not done any developing within Eagan, he has done a
significant number of projects within the City of Apple Valley and Burnsville.
Mr. Gair further explained the parcel, its location and topography and stated
the park land parcel had a knoll or knob as its feature. He stated that from
this particular vantage point, it gave a rather attractive and unique
relationship of the overall area.
Several members questioned the value of the dedication relative to
the overall requirements for this parcel. Director of Parks and Recreation
explained that as part of his recommendation, the land dedication be accepted.
but that the project also be required to make a cash dedication equivalent to
one half of the required amount. 'Further, that a trail be benched inbetween
lots 11 and 12. Member Carroll questioned the topography of the area for such
a trail. Review by Mr. Gair and Staff concluded that this was at a grade of
approximately 4% which was well within the grades for trails. Commission
members also discussed the width of the proposed area to provide for the
trail. Mr. Gair. explained that at least 15 feet could be dedicated and still
meet the City's requirements for set backs- and lot sizes.
After additional discussion, Member Thurston commented that she was
comfortable with the dedication requirements and that staff could work out the
trail between Lots 11 and 12 with the developer. A motion by Thurston,
seconded by Carroll, with a recommendation of the Advisory Parks and
Recreation Commission that this development 1) make a 2.1 acre dedication, 2)
a cash dedication equivalent to one half of the required amount, 3) a trail
between Lots 11 and 12 extending from the culdesac to the park area and 4) a
trail on Pilot Knob Road. All members in favor.
Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 5
COMMUNITY ROOM USE REGULATIONS
Member Masin excused herself from the meeting at this time.
Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the Staff Memorandum concerning
the Community Room Use Regulations. He stated that while the City has had the
regulation for some time, a reviewal seemed appropriate particularly because
of the number of requests that have come in regarding continous or successive
use. Commission Member Caponi stated he was concerned about the use of public
buildings by "transient church groups" and questioned who would approve the
use of the buildings for extended useage. Director Vraa responded that the
current policy establishes priority for use of the Community Rooms but the
City and Parks and Recreation programs more priority. Successive use would be
the last priority. Member Caponi stated that the City needed to develop a
rational for a policy so there is little decision making responsibility
associated with the room useage. There was additional explanation of the
current useage pattern at the Fire Administration Building and other elements
within the current useage policy after which Mr. Caponi stated that rental
should be approved on a daily basis, which would avoid one group from
dominating this facility. Member Porter stated that City functions should
always have first priority within the facilities. Member Carroll felt it
would be a burden to take daily requests for an organization that wished to
use it for successive days if it would not conflict with any City program or
already planned useage. Useage may be competitive enough to preclude any long
term use.
After additional discussion and review of the policy direction of
the Commission, Chairman Martin surmised the discussion by saying that it
appears we should continue to use the existing policy for another month. Ask
staff to establish and refine additional guidelines and priorities for
reservations for reviewal next month. He concluded that the Commission has
the consenses that relaxing of a policy prohibiting the successive or
continous use is agreeable but only under certain specific guidelines.
STORM SEWER CONTRACTS/PATRICK EAGAN PARK & NORTHVIEW PARK
Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa reviewed the history of the
projects in question, which the. Commission had reviewed several months
previously. Because the'Commission had specifically requested an update for
the final plans and specifications were developed.
Related to Northview Park, construction of the storm sewer line into
the park from Lexington Square Addition, will flood this pond including the
parking lot adjacent area. In response to the concern of staff and
commission, three steps are being taken to reduce and minimize the impact of
the possible flooding situation. These include the school district being
required to contain ponding within their site which will drain into the pond,
2) enlargement of the pond to increase capacity and 3) reduction of the
requirement for acre feet ponding purposes. This reduction would be
transferred to Patrick Eagan Park which would have less of an impact than at
Northview.
Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 6
Commission member Thurston questioned who pays for the cost of the
dredging for enlargement of the pond. Director Vraa stated he felt the
benefits would be to the park as well as to the City's storm sewer system and
in this instance we would pay for that in conjunction with parks development.
There were numerous questions regarding sizing and depth of storm sewer and
its location after which Director of Public Works, Tom Colbert, reviewed the
drainage plan of Mooney Lake into Patrick Eagan Park. It was stated the line
would be installed very shallow at a depth from 3 to 5 feet with a maximum out
of 8 feet. The City would be using PVC piping which would further reduce the
disruption to the site as a result of being able to move in the lighter, less
difficult to handle material versus the typical concrete. Small clean-outs
versus manhole catch basins would also be used. Control elevation of JP8
would be 819.2 which was the elevation of the pond in January of this year. A
gravity outlet connects this pond to the larger McCarthy Lake area which has a
high water elevation of 830.
Mr. Colbert then reviewed the ponding elevations of all the ponds
within the storm sewer district noting that the reduction of the Northview
Pond of 10 acre feet would increase the 100 year fixed elevation at McCarthy
by approximately 3". In response to questions, Mr. Colbert stated they would
take between 10 days and .2 weeks to get the 830 elevation down to its normal
ponding level if the 100 year occurrence would happen. Member Martin asked
what the controlling factor was and how the water got out of McCarthy Lake.
Mr. Colbert stated there is a lift station further down the stream which was
the determining factor. He stated that one pump is in place and provisions
have been made for a second pump after full development. Mr. Martin asked if
plans were in the making for this pump to be installed soon inasmuch as
drainage district development now being platted. Mr. Colbert stated such
plans were in the making. Members of the Advisory Commission expressed their
support and asked if there was any action they needed to take in order to
facilitate the undertaking and the importance of the installation of this pump
as it would impact City parks.
Commission member Capons questioned what happened to the other
option of an overground storm drain; did the staff study this issue? He
asked if this was a change in direction and why the Commission had not been
informed of it. Director Vraa responded this was the purpose of this meeting
to explain this issue and what studies had been done. Mr. Colbert reviewed
the topography of the area. He clearly indicated that overland drainage does
not fall directly to the park but would go to the north and encroach upon
property not currently owned by the City. Overland drainage would be possible
only the last two to three hundred feet which was at a slope of approximately
3 to 1. Because of concern for the issue of erosion, the pipe was being
extended to the pond. Mr. Colbert and Mr. Vraa stated that the shallow depth
of the storm sewer and the use of PVC piping would allow the Commission to
come back at a later time and provide for an overland stream if it so desired.
Members of the Commission stated that this was a logical alternative
particularly because of the concern for erosion because of the steep grade.
Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 7
Mr. Colbert then explained the storm sewer project as it would
affect Evergreen Park. After explanation, he stated that the City anticipated
a July construction for these projects. Mr. Martin questioned what other
ponds or lakes were within City park lands where there is no down stream
outlet and flooding might be expected to occur. Mr. Colbert stated that he
felt only two parks, Wescott Station and the pond on the Highline Trail were
within park land areas which did not have down stream outlets.
There was additional discussion by the Advisory Commission and Mr.
Colbert regarding storm sewer ponding, and the storm sewer plan. Mr. Martin
and other Commission members stated that they were interested in this
particular topic because of their concern for the impact of storm sewer
ponding on pond park land and the detrimental effects of erosion. Mr. Colbert
stated the Commission's concerns were appreciated and feels the Engineering
.Department and Consulting Engineering Firm are more sensitive to the issues
raised by the Advisory Commission and staff.
ARBOR DAY PROCLAMATION
The Superintendent of Parks, John VonDeLinde, presented a draft of
the Proclamation supporting Arbor Day as was requested by the Advisory
Commission at the last meeting. On a motion by Carroll, seconded by Sames,
with all members voting in favor, Commission members adopted the resolution
supporting Arbor Day and Arbor Month.
LCMR/L.A.W.C.O.N.-BLACKHAWK PARK
Director of Vraa reviewed the 1988 LAWCON application indicating
that a May 4th deadline had been set for preliminary grant applications.
After review and discussion, a motion by Carroll, seconded by Sames, with all
members voting in favor, staff was directed to submit an application for the
development of Blackhawk Park as the City's highest park priority in park
development.
PARK SITE REVIEW-PARK SERVICE SECTION 25W
Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, stated that Mr. Jim
Curry had offered a parcel of land north of Cliff Road, west of Highway 3,
which might be suitable for park purposes. An overview was displayed showing
the parcel and topography of the area which included an exception. There was
general questioning and discussion of the parcel. Several members indicated
they were familiar with the site; others indicated they were not aware of
this particular parcel and its park benefits. Chairman Martin stated he does
not feel it would fit into the Park's plan. Member Carroll stated the
topography was quite steep and would preclude to development although it is an
attractive parcel. On a motion by Porter, seconded by Carroll, members
declined to initiate an offer for the parcel.
Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 8
PARKS DEVELOPMENT UPDATE
Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, updated the Advisory
Commission on the planned bid opening dates for park shelter buildings
grading, etc.. It was noted that the parks grading contracts are being
delayed at this time as a result of requirement from the Department of Natural
Resources for a boat ramp permit onto Thomas Lake.
OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS
Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa, reviewed the.
administration for spring programs noting the programs have been very popular
and had filled quite rapidly. It was again expected there would be problems
in space utilization because of the growth in all age levels for spring
sports. Chairman Martin questioned the use of soccer fields and the status of
availability of these for adult useage.
Relative to the Community Center, Director Vraa stated perhaps a
second listening session to hear of other needs might be appropriate.
Further, that a sample survey to assess community interest and perceptions
about a community center might be appropriate at a later time. Preliminary
staff research into this area will be presented at a later date.
Chairman Martin indicated the interest being generated by a larger
group of people in the community center didn't feel it necessary to repeat the
listening session to hear more about swimming pools, ice arenas or gymnasiums.
Director Vraa stated that it might then be appropriate to then just look
internally to see other alternatives within the City which might include
Planning, Police, Parks and Recreation, etc.. Member Caponi stated that we
needed to show other groups where the Commission is at in the development and
summation of the materials at this time seemed appropriate. Commission
members agreed that summation data should be refined at this time. Chairman
Martin then stated that the enthusiasm so far might be appropriate to dovetail
a bond referendum sometime between the winter and summer of the 1988 Olympics.
After additional discussion, Mr. Vraa stated he felt it was the
Commission's consensus to assemble the details so far collected and to
summarize them in concise paragraph form.
JOINT MEETING
Director Vraa announced that the City of Apple Valley, Burnsville
and Lakeville were planning a Joint Commission Meeting on Thursday, May 21st,
at Trapp Farm Park.
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Adv. Parks & Rec. Comm.
April 2, 1987
Page 9
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business of the Advisory Commission, on a
motion by Carroll, seconded by Porter, with all members voting in favor, the
Regular Advisory Commission Meeting of April 2nd, 1987, was adjourned at 10:50
p.m.
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Date dv isory Parks & Recrea on Secre ary