12/03/1987 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF
THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
DECEMBER 3, 1987
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
was called to order by Chairman Roger Martin at 7:00 p.m. with all members of
the Advisory Commission in attendance. Staff present were the Director of
Parks and Recreation Ken Vraa, Parks Planner/Landscape Architect Steve
Sullivan, Parks Superintendent John VonDeLinde and Recreation Supervisor
Dorothy Peterson.
AWARDS PRESENTATION
Recreation Supervisor Dorothy Peterson gave special presentations to
thank Girl Scout Troop 954 and Lynn Prazak for volunteer service to the Parks
and Recreation Department over the last year. Also recognized was the Eagan
J.C.'s for their volunteer assistance with the Eagan Fun Run, Santa Claus
calls and egg hunt. Ellen Franz, of the Eagan Stagedoor Performers was
recognized for volunteer service in her initial efforts in starting the
community performing group. Chairman Roger Martin presented the awards
thanking each for their volunteer efforts and their contributions to the Parks
and Recreation Department of the City of Eagan.
AGENDA
A motion by Thurston, seconded by Bertz, with all members voting in
favor, the agenda for December 3 was approved.
MINUTES FOR NOVEMBER 5
On a motion by Carroll, seconded by Caponi, with all members voting
in favor, the minutes of November 5 were approved as received.
MINUTES OF THE-OCTOBER 22 SPECIAL MEETING
Roger Martin noted that on page three, paragraph 2, that the comment
from Mr. Martin should be changed to read that the Sandy Masin motion was
appropriate. A motion by Porter, seconded Kubik, with all members voting in
favor, the minutes of October 22 were approved as amended.
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
Planner Jim Sturm was present and provided an overview of the recent
actions of the Advisory Planning Commission and City Council regarding Cliff
Lake Galleria and Towers. After his update on the actions taken by the two
groups and the changes proposed in the Cliff Lake Center, Mr. Caponi
questioned if the revision was not new to the Commission and was curious if
past recommendations still apply. Director of Parks and Recreation Vraa
stated that he felt the recommendations of the Commission still applied and
should be incorporated into the development agreement.
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BUFFER HILLS 2ND ADDITION
Planner Sturm reviewed the proposed Buffer Hill 2nd Addition which
is south of Fish Lake. Mr. Carroll questioned if the storm sewer from the
proposed cul-de-sac goes directly into the lake and what the impact would be.
Mr. Sturm stated that the Soil Conservation District will monitor this as well
as the Department of Natural Resources. A motion by Mr. Carroll, seconded by
Mr. Kubik, with all members voting in favor, the Advisory Commission
recommended that a cash dedication requirement be a condition of plat
approval.
COMMUNITY CENTER STUDY
Director Vraa thanked the Advisory Commission for responding to the
mailed out questionnaire. He also noted that the City Council has reviewed
and approved the document at the last Council meeting. After additional
explanation 'regarding the timing of the questionnaire, Mr. Caponi stated that
he felt that the survey was too long and tested the endurance of the persons.
He felt that there was not enough focus on the community center and the survey
seemed jumbled.
Director Vraa responded that Decisions Resources has indicated to
him that a longer survey was performed in the City of Shorewood with only a 2%
rejection rate. The survey itself should take from 12 - 15 minutes, when done
by phone and administered by professional people. He went on to explain that
the scrambling of the questionnaire is intended to maintain the interest of
the listener, and is done by design and not by happenstance. Mr. Kubik
questioned whether there will be another test group involved with the
questionnaire. Mr. Vraa responded that a test group would be administered
too. It is the intent to try to refine the questions for readability and
understandability of the listener.
WILLIAM'S PIPELINE
- Director Ken Vraa reviewed the history of the issue involving the
Williams Pipeline Company and the desire to donate to the City three lots
located in the Westbury Addition. Mr. Vraa stated that an oil spill had
occurred on the property at one time but that the Minnesota Environmental
Protection Agency.had cleared the property for dev-elopment. He stated that
Williams Brothers Pipeline was now willing to donate the lots to the City for
parks purposes under certain conditions. These conditions included that no
permanent structure would be located on the property, that no deep rooted
trees would be planted, that Williams Brothers would retain the option to take
soil samples and the easement on the property for access to the pipeline,
should there be another disruption.
Relative to assessments, Williams Brothers Pipeline indicated that
they felt it would be the City's responsibility to clear the assessments in an
amount exceeding $17,000.
Mr. Caponi would like to recommend that the City take the gift and
meet those conditions. Director Vraa stated that the $17,000 in assessments
was a result of street and utility. improvements. Therefore, the amount had to
come from Parks or General Funds in order to pay back bonding. Mr. Caponi
then clarified that if the City had to provide $17,000 rather than clear the
assessments, additional consideration should be given. Mr. Kubik questioned
what would happen to the property if the City refused the offer. Director
Vraa responded that Williams Brothers had a couple of options which included
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selling the lots for building purposes or to hold it. Mr. Kubik stated that
perhaps the City could out wait Williams Brothers and obtain the property
through tax forfeiture if that is the case and the City wants the property.
Chairman Martin stated that $17,000 seems to be too much for less than one
acre of land particularly when you consider the constraints on the parcel.
Sandy Bertz stated that she felt this would be bad for the City to buy the
property, create a precedence for other situations and neighborhoods who have
a vacant lot and would like playground equipment installed. Mr. Sames
questioned the safety, noting its location on two busy roads. The Advisory
Commission then revised possible uses for the lots noting that the City had
already acquired a lot in the Westbury Addition for park playground equipment.
On a motion by Kubik, seconded by Carroll, with all members voting
in favor, it is the recommendation of the Advisory Commission to thank
Williams Brothers Pipeline for the offer and to notify them that the property
does not fit into Park's plans.
WINKLER JACKSON PARK
Director Vraa noted that the PUD agreement provided for the site
grading of the park now identified as Winkler/Jackson Parcel in Park Service
Section 31W. Mr. Vraa stated that it would be appropriate to determine if a
neighborhood meeting was necessary. A meeting was set for January 21 for the
neighborhood giving staff time to mail out letters. Members Thurston, Sames,
Carroll and Kubik stated interest in attending that meeting.
WINTER PROGRAMS
Director Vraa introduced Dorothy Peterson and John VonDeLinde for
reviewing the 1987/1988 Winter Programs including the program offerings and
the revised maintenance program. Mr. Vraa noted that the City now has 29 ice
surfaces of which 15 are hockey and 14 free skating.
Superintendent VonDeLinde stated that the planning process for the
skating season was a year round process and that base flooding would begin
within a week. Two crews, each with a tank trunk, would be split into two
shifts per day or 16 hours of coverage. It is staff's intent to have the
rinks available for skating by December 19. Mr. VonDeLinde then reviewed the
routine maintenance program once the skating rinks are available, the four
levels of rink maintenance and staff's intent to provide crews on Saturdays.
He noted that this would be a change in procedures resulting in less manpower
on Mondays with a half crew on.Saturdays in order to clean and clear the
rinks. Reviewing the maintenance plan, Mr. VonDeLinde alluded to the fact
that weather conditions played a significant role in the Parks maintenance
program with the _thawing..temperatures, frost heaving, extreme cold, forecast,
illness, equipment malfunctions and obligations to the Street Department for
backup for snow removal and sanding. Mr. VonDeLinde then reviewed the cross
country ski trails operation and other maintenance responsibilities during the
winter time. Commission member Masin questioned if the lights at Trapp Farm
were for safety or for the pleasure of the sledders. Mr. Kubik questioned if
Cedar Pond, classified as a_Class D, had any warming house facility. Staff
responded to these questions.
Dorothy Peterson explained that the department head met with the
youth hockey associations in trying to provide sufficient time and. places for
their hockey practices. She noted that staff had increased the number of
hours available from the previous season and but that four new teams had been
formed in the Eagan Hockey Association, therefore, even more hours would have
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to be found. She stated that in the distribution of the ice time the
neighborhood would have first priority but that all of the association's needs
would be met. She stated that interviews for warming house staff is nearly
completed and it does appear that there will be enough attendants to staff the
facilities. She reviewed the attendants' responsibilities noting that
emphasis will no longer be placed on the attendant's for cleaning the skating
rinks. The Recreation Supervisor then reviewed the dates of closing of the
rinks based on the classification system, the hours, and the ice practice
times made available to associations.
Chairman Martin questioned what hours of use were at Goat Hill last
year noting that there were significant hours being programmed for this
facility. Commission member Masin questioned if there was any complaints from
people who couldn't skate at Goat Hill. Dorothy Peterson responded to both
questions, indicating that the City had received a few complaints regarding
the amount of hockey at this facility. Director Vraa responded that staff to
is concerned-about the concentration at this park. He stated that the
existing free skate at Goat Hill provides some opportunity. He stated that
the City is trying to keep up with the needs of the association. It is
obvious that demographic changes based on the population have resulted in a
greater concentration of youth in this area. Mr. Porter questioned if the
Eagan Hockey Association has more than one practice time per night or one team
per hour. He also questioned if the schedule was posted. Mrs. Peterson
responded that the Mini Mights do include more than one team on the ice at one
time and that the schedule is posted in the warming house for people who
visit. Bertz questioned why hockey was not scheduled at the Well Site,
particularly in light of the fact that Goat Hill was used so heavily? Mrs.
Peterson stated that the Well Site is a highly used skating facility and that
perhaps consideration should be given to moving some hours from Goat Hill to
Well Site. Mr. Martin questioned, since some facilities have no phones, what
the procedures are in case of injury or need. Mr. Porter questioned the
policy for hockey on the open skating areas. After additional questions and
responses by the Commission and staff, Mr. Martin thanked staff for a good
presentation and preparations for the upcoming season.
DAKOTA COUNTY RIGHT-OF-WAY REPORT
Director of Parks and Recreation and the Landscape Architect stated
that the City has received a request from Dakota County to provide both
temporary and permanent road right-of-way easements with the proposed
construction of Pilot Knob Road. These easements affect several City owned
parcels of which two directly impact parks. Mr. Vraa indicated that upon
return of the easements, the County would be willing to enter into an
agreement for a 99 year lease of the Burow house on Cliff and Pilot Knob
Roads. This house would then revert to use by the Athletic Association.
Mr. Sullivan then reviewed each of the parcels and responded to
questions. He provided specific information regarding grades, distances and
impact upon the parks. Mr. Martin questioned the point of access for Well
Site Park and its proximity to the open skating area. Mr. Sullivan indicated
that the Countyi_s not showing a roadway, only an access apron to the park.
The access location is north of the current access point. This is of concern,
bearing review by the staff and the Commission, because of its impact upon the
park. The Commission then asked several questions regarding the grades,
impact on the skating rink, impact on the well location, the possibility of a
future water treatment plant located on this site. Poor soil problems and
poor conditions of both the hockey rink and present warming house need to be
reviewed.
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Member Bertz stated that with all the concerns mentioned, safety of
the rink users must be considered too, particularly because of the grades and
access to the park off of Pilot Knob Road. Mr. Caponi stated that there may
be an opportunity to review and make significant changes in the park, noting
that the Director's past indications of the substandard quality of the warming
house and hockey rink should be taken into consideration. Mr. Sames
questioned the amount of flat space beyond the trail near Cliff Road. Mr.
Sullivan stated he will review this as the layout plan does not indicate
proposed grades relative to the road and pathway.
In regards to parcel #42, the former township city hall building, it
will have to be moved. Mr. Caponi questioned the value of the building and if
it indeed had not already lost its historical value as a result of it being
changed and remodeled previously. The Commission had a brief discussion
regarding the township/city hall building, and it was noted that the City
Council has not made a determination of what specifically needed to be done.
It was suggested that a subcommittee of the advisory commission be formed to
follow up on this. Mr. Kubik questioned with the tree removal being proposed
at the former township city hall site and along the roadway, that if this
wasn't an opportunity to transplant and bring into use some new planting
material to upgrade the visual qualities of this roadway. Mr. Carroll added
that the City will be giving up nearly seven acres and that the addition of
trees on a sharing basis is appropriate. Mr. Caponi also stated his
agreement. There was additional discussion and review of the proposed right-
of-way. Upon a motion by Carroll, seconded by Caponi, the Advisory Parks and
Recreation Commission made the following recommendations to the City Council:
1. Place a 3:1 slope adjacent to Thomas Lake Park, north of the park access
road, provide a connection from the Highline Trail to the Boulevard Trail
across from the Wilderness Run Road/Pilot Knob Road intersection, remove
and replace the driveway apron to Thomas Lake access road to accommodate
proposed road grades.
2. Parcel 12 - provide a park access road from the proposed apron to the
existing parking lot, grade and revise the free skate areas as a result
of the road improvements influencing the existing free skate area,
subject to review by staff and the Advisory Commission.
3. Parcel 14 - that the County revise the legal description for permanent
easement removing the northerly 120 feet of parcel 14.
4. Parcel 42 - the Advisory Commission and City Council create a committee
to review, and make alternative recommendations regarding the historical
value and suitabiity of the old township/city hall building to
accommodate the right-of-way road realignment.
5. Parcel 48 - the City Forester reviewed the possibility of transplanting
trees north of the Fire Administration Building. Further, the City and
the County_deve1Q-p,,--a,- landscaping plan for the roadway which would provide
for additional and significant tree plantings.
On a vote on a motion, all members indicated in favor.
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SNOWMOBILES
Mr. Vraa reviewed the history of snowmobile use along the Highline
and Johnny Cake Ridge Road. Member Alt stated that she was against the use of
the Highline Trail because of the added population, lack of enforcement and
the fact that they do not stay on the designated trails, cutting through
private property and over park land. Mr. Martin noted that Burnsville doesn't
allow snowmobiles and believes that Apple Valley has limited snowmobile
access. Sandy Masin stated that there is an obvious traffic increase on Rahn
Road that could affect snowmobile access. Mr. Porter questioned access into
Lebanon Hills and if there was now a lack of interest by the snowmobile club.
Mr. Kubik stated that his response from the public has been negative and that
Eagan has outgrown this opportunity. Mr. Martin stated that population has
grown to a point where there is more at issue here then providing snowmobile
trails. Discontinuing snowmobiling in the City does not mean that access to
the county park cannot be had. Mr. Caponi stated that he felt snowmobiling
should be discontinued due to the protection of others not because of
snowmobiles itself. Commission member Porter feels we should discontinue the
two links only at this time because of the growth, and liability taken on by
the City. On a motion by Kubik, seconded by Alt, with all members voting in
favor, it was a recommendation of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
that the Highline Trail and Johnny Cake Ridge Road be discontinued as
snowmobile trails.
Mr. Martin stated that it appeared there is a consensus of the
Advisory Commission to review further recommendations to discontinue
snowmobiles within the City of Eagan proper. He suggested that the Police
Department be contacted regarding their concerns, if any, on snowmobiles.
PARKS DEVELOPMENT 1988
Director Vraa verbally reviewed the staff report for the 1988
proposed parks development projects list. Mr. Vraa noted that a portion of
the funding for this project list would have to come from the park site fund
although no specific numbers have been put together at this time.
Mr. Kubik stated that he has received a significant number of
favorable comments from the public on Eagan's parks development this year. He
stated that he would like to take this time to commend staff for their past
work on the parks system, not only on quantity ~ut on quality_- achieved.
In response to a question regarding the work load, Mr. Vraa stated
that plans include an individual to assist with the inspection of construction
activities. After additional discussions and questions, and a motion by
Kubik, seconded by Bertz, with all members voting in favor, the 1988 program
for parks development was recommended for approval.
CONSTRUCTION UPDATE AND EXPENDITURES
Landscape Architect Steve Sullivan updated the Advisory Commission
on parks development noting that the building contractor was now concluded
his work. Lights have been installed at Quarry and Blue Cross Parks. Mr.
Sullivan reviewed other aspects of park development. It was noted that the
November financial report was included in the packet.
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OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS
Director Vraa then reviewed four items under Other Business and
Reports noting that the Eagan Stage Door Performers were soliciting business
contributions for its program. It was noted that the Santa Calling program
had already solicited 260 responses and the closing deadline is approaching.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, with a motion by Bertz, seconded by
Kubik, with all members voting in favor, the regular meeting of the Advisory
Parks and Recreation Commission was adjourned at 10:10 p.m.
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