03/03/1988 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF
THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
MARCH 3, 1988
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation
Commission was called to order at 7:00 p.m. on Thursday, March 3,
1988 with the following Commission Members present: Dick Carroll,
Michele Swanson, Sandy Masin, and Bob Porter. Staff present
included Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa; Landscape
Architect/Parks Planner, Steve Sullivan; Parks Superintendent,
John VonDeLinde; Recreation Supervisor, Dorothy Peterson and
Parks Secretary, Cherryl Mesko. Commission Members not present
included George Kubic, JoAnne Alt, Wayne Sames and David Hennes.
AGENDA
A motion was made by Masin, seconded by Porter with all
members voting in favor to accept the agenda as presented.
MINUTES FOR FEBRUARY 4, 1988 MEETING
Page 12, the first paragraph, should read, "In reviewing the
proposal to grade the park it was learned there was a need to
include a retention area (dry pond). It was discovered by the
Engineering Department that the retention area would be required
to be in the park area since the existing storm system could not
accommodate the water. If the south and southeast area develops
it will create an even larger area of run-off than exists now,
thus the ponding is needed. The existing run-off is projected as
follows:"
Page 13, paragraph 3 under DEPARTMENT HAPPENINGS, second
line, the word "movies" should be changed to "monies".
Page 13, paragraph 1 under ADDITION TO AGENDA, line 3 the
word "commerative" should be "commemorative".
With the above changes addressed, Dick Carroll moved, Sandy
Masin seconded and all members voted in favor of accepting the
February minutes as amended.
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Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of March 3, 1988 meeting
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CONSENT AGENDA
The following consent agenda items were presented for
approval. On a motion by Porter, seconded by Masin, with all
members voting in favor, the Commission approved recommendation
to the City Council of the following items:
1. PRETTYMAN HEIGHTS - That this plat be subject to a cash
dedication requirement.
2. COUNTRY HOLLOW-2ND ADDITION - That this plat be subject
to a cash dedication requirement.
3. TOWN CENTRE 100 - 2ND ADDITION (PIZZA HUT) - That this
plat be subject to a cash dedication requirement
consistent with the City's policy for
commercial/industrial property.
CLIFF LAKE CENTRE
Dale Runkle, City Planner presented an overview of the
Cliff Lake Centre located north of Cliff Road and east of Rahn
Road as it impacts on the existing access to the center versus
the proposed realignment of Rahn Road. Mr. Runkle indicated the
City Council acted to approve the preliminary plan at the
Tuesday, March 1st meeting with the following changes made by
Council, Department of Natural Resources and the Developer:
1. Protect Cliff Lake area more than previously designed
and shown.
2. Setback to be a minimum of 50 feet from the 890 water"'
elevation. -
3. No more than 70% impervious surfaces.
Mr. Runkle also noted that the original plan for 325,000
square feet of retail space had been reduced by 63,000 square
feet.
In December, 1987 the concept of using Rahn Road as an
access road was discussed based on the redesign of Rahn Road to
limit stacking on Cliff Road. The plan would move Rahn Road
easterly so that traffic would feed onto an interior street to
the center therefore lessening the traffic on Rahn as it accesses
from Cliff. In defining the proposed street alignment, the end
result would be 67,000 square feet for a Super Value, 75,000
square feet for retail space, 114,300 square feet for Target and
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6,000 square feet for out buildings. Mr. Runkle noted the plan
was approved with 20 conditions and a feasibility report was
forthcoming to support the action.
Mr. Carroll asked if some of the mature trees in the green
space around the parking area can be saved. Mr. Runkle responded
that the grading plan shows that possibility. He also indicated
that the large outlot on the corner of Cliff and Rahn was to be
left more natural with as many trees remaining as possible.
Mr. Carroll stated that the 50 foot perimeter space around
the lake, the movement of the roadway, as well as the creation of
green space as improvements shown thus far should be applauded.
Member Porter questioned if the existing Rahn Road was to be
abandoned in the area where it is planned for realignment. Mr.
Runkle stated that that was a possibility; Rahn would tie into
Cliff Drive (or whatever the name would be for the street
accessing Cliff Lake center) to allow for traffic flow. Again,
the Council has requested a study to see where Rahn Road should
be located.
Member Carroll suggested that rather than destroy the
portion of Rahn that would be abandoned, the City should leave
the road bed, fill in the ditches to accommodate parking for the
existing park area. Director Vraa suggested that part of Rahn
would be covered over to allow for future development, i.e. more
parking, and there is the possibility of a trail running on the
east side of Rahn. Member Porter indicated the new Rahn
alignment was positive for the park area and moved for approval
if the hook up of Rahn Road is north of the drainage area and the
abandoned right-of-way is retained. Dick Carroll seconded the
motion with all members voting in favor.
EAGAN HIGH SCHOOL, SITE PLAN
Ted Rozeboom reviewed the visual presentation of the
proposed athletic fields for the Eagan High School. The entire
concept was presented to show the overall layout of the high
school and it's facilities which are bordered on the north side
by Northview Park Drive, on the east by Braddock, on the south by
Diffley and on the west by Eagan's Northview Park. The northern
portion of the property is rolling terrain and farmland with a
drop in elevation-from Diffley to the building of 45 feet. The
high school facilities are directly adjacent to the high school
building with the middle school athletic fields adjacent to the
existing Northview Park athletic fields.
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Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
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There was a desire to sink the football field so that is was
less offensive visually to the people living on Braddock across
from the facility. The field will be 2 feet lower than Braddock
Road but with berming and vegetation to screen traffic and
noise. It is felt this will be a comfortable compromise for the
surrounding residents. In addition, the lighting will be reduced
from 6 to 4 standards that will be raised higher so the light
will be directed down onto the field rather than filtering into
adjacent areas. The traffic must unload on the interior of the
football field near the parking lot so this, too, should diminish
the inconvenience to the neighborhood.
Dick Carroll questioned if the baseball/softball fields are
exactly as they have been presented in the past to which the
answer was yes. Sandy Masin commented on the soccer field
overlays on baseball fields and the need to make the best use of
the proposed facilities. Bob Porter asked if there would be a
fence around the area. Ted Rozeboom answered saying there would
be a 4 foot fence around the track and an 8 foot fence around the
facility.
Director Vraa discussed the existing provision for a
trailway on the south side of Northview Park Road, west side of
Braddock Trail, and an internal trail system that connects with
the proposed trails within Northview Park which would follow
through to Bridle Ridge.
Dick Carroll moved, Bob Porter seconded, with all members
voting in favor to concur with the plan of School District 196's
athletic fields based on the high school site only.
FIELD UTILIZATION AGREEMENT
JOINT POWER AGREEMENT - TENNIS COURTS
Dick Carroll expressed the need to change the wording _on
Page 4, Paragraph A. Scheduling, of the Field Utilization
document. He felt it should read, "The City of Eagan shall
annually submit a request to School District #196, Eagan High
School/Dakota Hills Middle School Athletic Director for the use
of the High School/Middle School fields."
The tennis courts being planned will be located on the
southeast corner of Northview Park adjacent to Dakota Hills
Middle School facilities. There areplans for 12 tennis courts
to be built on City property. The tennis courts would be built
by the City of Eagan, paid for by School District 196, maintained
by the City of Eagan with School District given first priority in
scheduling their use and the City given access after that.
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Bob Porter moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members
voting in favor to accept the Field Utilization Agreement based
on the verbiage suggested for Page 4 of that document by Mr.
Carroll and the acceptance of the Tennis Court Joint Powers
Agreement as presented.
School District 196 questioned who would be responsible for
watering the fields on the high school and middle school sites.
Director Vraa indicated it would be the responsibility of School
District 196 to determine their program for watering their ball
fields. Vraa suggested that S.D. 196 may want to maintain the
condition of the fields so as to protect their investment.
THOMAS LAKE WOODS
Parks Planner/ Landscape Architect Steve Sullivan presented
the background for Thomas Lake Woods indicating the parcel is a
part of Blackhawk Park Planned Development with the parkland
dedication occurring at the time of the original PD. The parcel
is located west of Thomas Lake Road and south of the Highline
Trail Corridor. The northwest corner of the site abutts the
southeastern portion of the proposed Willmus Park.
Although the developer has fulfilled the parks dedication
for this property he is asking to donate Outlot B for park
purposes. The developer would also like to donate Outlot C with
the provision that he will do the grading work if the City-will
construct a trail link through Outlot C from the northwest cul-
de-sac to the Highline Corridor.
Member Carroll questioned the 20 foot vertical elevation
change over the 300 feet of proposed trail and what impact that
would have. Steve Sullivan indicated this was typical of what
would be found in the Highline Corridor, but steps may be
necessary to bring the trail in line with the contours. Staff
will need to take a closer look at how the trail will tie into
the existing system. Commission members discussed the
surrounding areas and how that will impact on the trail usage.
Member Masin questioned if there were any disadvantages to
putting the trail in Outlot C. Steve Sullivan responded that the
trail will take some time in planning and engineering but that
the advantages to the people in the surrounding area far outweigh
the timing necessary. Dick-Carroll also stated that the trail
will save time for those wanting to get to Willmus Park.
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Dick Carroll moved, Bob Porter seconded with all members
voting in favor to accept Outlot B as a donation for Willmus Park
and that Outlot C be accepted with the following provisions:
a. Developer to be responsible for the grading, (working
with the City to determine the appropriate measures to
maintain consistent quality) and the City to be
responsible for the trail surface.
b. Developer to include an 8 foot bituminous trail link on
the west side of Thomas Lake Road.
RAHN RIDGE 2ND ADDITION
Landscape Architect/Parks Planner Steve Sullivan reviewed
for the Commission the history of this parcel. It was originally
a part of Mission Hills Planned Development and zoned Limited
Business. The Commission previously reviewed this parcel as
Outlot F of the Rahn Ridge 1st Addition. The parkland dedication
was completed for Rahn Ridge 1st through the dedication of Outlot
A, B, C & E (Vienna Woods Park) for that portion of the plat
designated as a future church facility - Lot 1, Block 1 and
twenty duplex sites.
Steve Sullivan explained that the parcel typically drains
from north to south. Approximately 2/3 of the site is proposed
to drain through an existing fifteen inch storm sewer outlet into
the pond within Vienna Woods Park. The fact that the 15" pipe
does not have adequate capacity to handle this run-off, makes it
necessary to consider some alternatives. Parks Planner Sullivan
reviewed the following alternatives:
1. Replace the existing 15" storm sewer with a more
appropriately sized storm sewer.
2. Use the 15" storm sewer as well as construct a second
one that would be extended to the pond within Vienna
Woods Park.
3. The developer can provide on-site ponding and use the
existing 15".storm sewer.
4. An additional storm sewer line can be extended along
the southern edge of the development, cross Pin Oak,
bypass the existing pond and outlet into a small
ponding area adjacent to I-35E.
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Steve indicated that by using either alternative 1 or
alternative 2, the bounce of the pond is such that it can flood
the trail in a couple of areas.
Sandy Masin was opposed to both alternative 1 and 2 after
having them clarified by Parks Planner Sullivan. Dick Carroll
concurred stating that this property was originally zoned
commercial with the 15" storm sewer shown. He expressed his
frustration that again, there was a situation where, from the
beginning, this was not sufficient to accommodate the run-off and
questioned why this continues to occur.
Member Porter indicated his support of Option 4 as a much
better long term solution than any of the other options. Dick
Carroll indicated the greatest need was to get water away as
quickly as possible and felt the developer should be ultimately
responsible for same. Sandy Masin moved, Dick Carroll seconded,
with all members voting in favor to recommend alternative #4 as
the solution to this particular problem as well as the developer
being responsible for a cash contribution.
NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING - WINKLER JACKSON PARK
Director Vraa briefed the Commission on the need for a
neighborhood meeting for the proposed Winkler Jackson Park. He
suggested a meeting date of March 24, 1988 at 7:30 p.m.
Commission Members agreed to the date and would provide
representation from the Commission at the meeting.
COMMUNITY CENTER STUDY
Director Vraa explained to the Commission that the overall
response to the community center was very positive but that there
was a great deal of work to accomplish. The estimated time frame
for this project would be at least 16 months. Director Vraa
stated that he had met with City Administrator Tom Hedges, Mayor
Vic Ellison and Commission Chair Dick Carroll to discuss the
status of the survey and try to determine the most expeditious
way to accomplish the multitude of tasks that will need to be
completed.
Director Vraa explained the first step was to draft the
R.F.P., to then instruct the architects who will be bidding the
building as to the process the City of Eagan uses, followed by
Phase I which will be selection of an architect who will provide
concept plans based on the defined space needs for the community
center. From that, preliminary costs would be determined, the
plans would be refined and then on to the preferred schematic
alternatives.
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Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
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Director Vraa proceeded to review the time frame for all the
different aspects of the planning and how they overlap. The most
crucial aspect at this point seems to be whether the Commission
is prepared to move forward with finding an architectural firm.
After questioning some of the costs involved in obtaining an
architect, Member Masin indicated she was ready to go ahead with
finding an architectural firm. Dick Carroll moved and Sandy
Masin seconded, with all members voting in favor to recommend the
adoption of the draft schedule received this date.
With all the information regarding the community center,
Dick Carroll felt there was a need to have a special meeting or
workshop to review items the Commission would need to address
soon. Ken Vraa indicated some of the components do not need to
be addressed at this point; that will occur after some
refinement. Member Carroll suggested that the Commission members
take the information home and review it before attending the
workshop. Director Vraa stated that he would provide subsequent
information to the Commission members for review before the
workshop which was suggested for Saturday, March 26th at 9 A.M.
With all commission members agreeing on the date, the workshop
will be scheduled at the Municipal Center on the above referenced
date.
OHMANN PARK
Parks Planner/ Landscape Architect Steve Sullivan presented
the Ohmann Park plan for the Commission's review and action. As
background, the Commission reviewed the change in this parcel of
land due to the ponding'area that is to remain a part of the park
area. Steve Sullivan explained that the ponding area needs to be
there for water run-off.-, The inclusion of the ponding area
eliminated the green space originally planned in the parking lot
area. The pond. would primarily be a dry pond. In the event of.a
100 year rain, there would be a four foot bounce and the water
will stay in the pond for 9-1/2 hours.-' With.a 10..year rain there
would be a one foot bounce with the water remaining for 4 hours.
Steve went. on to explain that the park would have a_shelter
building similar to the Rahn shelter building, a softball field
and 3 soccer fields (300' x 200'). Mr. Sullivan explained that
the pond will infrequently flood and that the subsurface is
mostly sand.-. Director 'Vraa had suggested that...the.., ponding_ area
banks could be used as a horseshoe complex. Overall, Staff-felt
with the_.changesmade this would be -an- excellent neighborhood
park.
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Member Carroll asked about the possibility of flooding the
ponding area for skating in lieu of having children cross Cliff
to skate at Well Site. Steve Sullivan stated that that would be
something that should and could be considered. Member Porter
asked if the soccer fields would be lit for night play and, again
it was indicated this could be a possibility but only on the two
interior soccer fields. Member Porter felt there should be a
sign advising of the possible potential for lighting the fields
as a consideration to the neighboring residents. It was noted
that the soccer fields would be approximately 150 feet from the
nearest property line.
Member Masin asked if the City Council had commented on the
Commission's dissatisfaction with losing the land and will
anything be done to remedy the situation so that it does not
occur again. Director Vraa indicated that there have been
meetings with the Developer and Engineering Department regarding
this particular issue but that there have been no guarantees
given that this will never occur again.
Dick Carroll questioned if there was sufficient top soil or
black dirt for this park and Steve Sullivan responded that Staff
would be looking into that issue next week.
Director Vraa explained that Staff is also looking at
putting the two soccer fields on a plateau to enable the rotation
of field lines and also to use the field as double fields. Staff
felt this was worth looking into to see about obtaining greater
use of.the fields.
Member Masin questioned who would be responsible for paying
for the pond. Steve Sullivan answered that the developer will
grade the ponding area, do the excavation and removal of dirt,.
Dick Carroll questioned if there would be berming around the
pond. Mr. Sullivan stated this would not be necessary at this
location.
Bob Porter moved, Sandy Masin seconded,- with all members
voting in favor to accept the concept plan as presented this date
for Ohmann Park.
UPDATE - YOUTH ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION
Recreation Supervisor,. Dorothy Peterson,--gave the Commission
an_ update:_ of the meetings that have been.; going- on since
September, 1987 between the various athletic associations that
serve Eagan, the school districts serving Eagan residents and the
Parks and Recreation Staff. At the last meeting the concensus
was that the athletic associations were moving closer to perhaps
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sharing some programs. It was felt that the influence with the
boundary lines for the middle and high school would greatly
determine where the associations would draw their lines in
marketing programs. Overall, the meetings are producing very
positive results.
DEPARTMENT HAPPENINGS
John VonDeLinde, Parks Superintendent, shared with the
Commission that he had just recently received a letter from the
National Arbor Day Association stating that Eagan had been
selected as a Tree City, USA recipient. The Parks Department
will receive a plaque and award from the National Arbor Day
Association for the City to display. Member Carroll commented
that this certainly makes us appreciate our "greeness" and on
behalf of the Commission offered their congratulations.
Director Vraa indicated that he and Steve Sullivan would be
leaving Sunday, March 6th for Chicago to visit some of the
community centers in the southern Wisconsin and Chicago area.
They will be video taping the sites they visit so that they can
share the different facilities with Staff and Commission members.
With no further business to conduct, Sandy Masin moved, Dick
Carroll seconded, with all members voting in favor to adjourn.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:20 P.M.
Date Secretary
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