09/01/1988 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF
THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
SEPTEMBER 1, 1988
A regular, _me.eting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was
called to order at 7:30 P.M. on Thursday, September 1, 1988 with the following
Commission Members present: Michele Swanson, Wayne Sames, Sandy Masin, JoAnne
Alt, Bob Porter and Dick Carroll. Staff present included Director of Parks
and Recreation, Ken Vraa; Landscape Architect/Parks Planner Steve Sullivan;
Parks Superintendent, John VonDeLinde; Recreation Supervisor, Dorothy
Peterson; Parks Secretary, Cherryl Mesko and Parks Intern, Mel Bailey.
Commission Member George Kubik was not present.
AGENDA
Director Vraa asked that Rahn Trail, identified as Item #8 under New
Business, be added,to the agenda. Sandy Masin moved, JoAnne Alt seconded with
all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as amended.
MINUTES FROM AUGUST 4, 1988 MEETING
Page 11, paragraph 6, the term "Purple Stripe" should be replaced with
"Purple Loosestrife". Wayne Sames moved, Michele Swanson seconded with all
members voting in favor to accept the minutes from August 4, 1988 as amended.
MINUTES FROM AUGUST 18, 1988 MEETING
Page 3, paragraph 4, last sentence, should be changed to reflect the
change from "to" to "too". JoAnne Alt moved, Bob Porter seconded with all
members voting in favor to accept the minutes from August 19, 1988 as amended.
CONSENT AGENDA
The following consent agenda items were presented for approval. On a
motion by JoAnne Alt, seconded by Wayne Sames with all members voting in
favor, the Commission approved recommendation to the City Council of the
following items:
1. T.F. James Co. - That this plat be subject to a cash parkland
dedication and that developer be responsible for an 8 foot wide
bituminous trail along the north side of County Road 30 and the
east side of County Road 31.
2. Opus Corporation - That this proposal be subject to a cash
parkland dedication.
3. National Minerals Corporation-NSP - That this proposal be subject
to a cash parkland dedication and a 5 foot wide sidewalk be placed
on the south side of Lone Oak Road.
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 2
WESCOTT SQUARE ADDITION
Steve Sullivan reacquainted the Commission members with this issue
noting that the Commission at it's August meeting has instructed the developer
to provide an open space within the Wescott Square Addition development and
show what recreational amenities they were going to include in this area. The
Commission also asked to see a layout of the proposed amenities to determine
if there was any basis for allowing a parkland dedication credit. In
Mr.Sullivan's conversation with the developer, the developer has expressed his
interest in providing these amenities at the beginning of the development.
Mr. Steve Behnke was present to represent the developer and New Horizon
Homes. He noted that they have adjusted 5 buildings on the site to have less
impact on the existing trees and vegetation. They feel that in providing the
recreational amenities in the development from the beginning this will help
with the marketing of the townhomes. The model building is in the
southeast portion of the development and the proposed recreational amenities
include a 20' x 20' sand pit which will accommodate a plat structure at a
later date. Further planned amenities include a second sand pit of comparable
size and a gazebo that would be placed in the area with trees which is being
planned as an outlot. The sand pits are designed for possible expanded use
depending upon the occupants of the townhomes. If the neighborhood becomes
primarily adult the pits will allow for the expansion of amenities such as
volleyball, horseshoes, etc. Once the homeowners association takes over they
can determine their priorities for amenities based on the residents' needs.
Member Sames questioned the distance from Wescott Station park. Steve
Sullivan responded by stating that Westcott Station was one-half to three-
quarters of a mile and that the distance to the Woodlands School park was
three-quarters of a mile. Mr. Sames asked what was going into Westcott
Station Park. Again, Mr. Sullivan responded by stating that this was a
neighborhood park and would have facilities similar to other neighborhood
parks but that a master plan had not yet been done for Wescott Station.
Steve Sullivan asked Mr. Behnke when the determination would be made as
to the placement of these amenities. Mr. Behnke responded by stating that the
first sand pit area would be planned and provided during the grading of Phase
I. During Phase I I the gazebo, second sand pit and play structure would be
added. The plan is to have the amenities put in by the developer concurrent
with the development. Mr. Behnke noted that the size of the outlot in this
development was approximately 4000 square feet. By adding the initial
recreation amenities at the beginning of the development and allowing for some
flexibility in developing the future amenities the developer feels this will
best meet the needs of the future homeowners since it is unclear at this time
if that will include families with children or primarily adults.
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 3
As clarification, Dick Carroll noted that it was standard procedure for
the Commission to ask that play structures and recreational facilities be
provided in a multi-family development of this size and could not see why a
credit should be given in this case. Mr. Behnke noted that they were not
looking for a parkland "dedication credit, rather the developer wanted to
included the amenities up front instead of escrowing funds to do it at a later
date.
After further discussion, JoAnne Alt moved that the Commission recommend
acceptance of the plat as shown including two sand areas, one playground
structure and a gazebo. The motion further stated that the developer was to
be responsible for a cash parkland dedication and the installation of a 5 foot
wide sidewalk on the south side of Yankee Doodle Road. The motion was
seconded by Sandy Masin with all members voting in favor.
OAK MEADOWS
Director Vraa explained that the information in the packet relative to
Oak.--Meadows located north-of Ktngswoodd! 2nd-Addition--was- -informational only:
The parkland dedication requirements have already been met thus no action is
required.
BRIDLE RIDGE PARK
NEIGHBORHOOD REPRESENTATIVES
Parks Planner Steve Sullivan briefed the Commission on the background of
the neighborhood interest in the development of Bridle Ridge Park. Steve
stated that he met with the neighbors on August 9, 1988 and discussed the
results of a neighborhood survey that Robin Fluin and Dale Ford spearheaded in
determining the needs of the neighborhood for their park. Mr Sullivan
explained to the residents that the plans were to grade the parking lot and
establish the trails this year. . The residents' concern was the need for
playground equipment, the possibility of incorporating an_ open skating area
for this winter and the discussion of a wading pool.
Dale Ford representing the neighborhood addressed the Commission by
explaining that the neighborhood had formed -an-Ad Hoc park committee that
included Stone Bridge, Stone Bridge Hills, Stone Bridge Meadows area and the
Eagan Hills Farm area. Mr. Ford noted that based on the survey only they
showed 44 children in the 0-4 age range indicating the need for facilities to
accommodate this age group; Their , survey- also noted 0,e neighborhood's
interest in tennis courts and a wading pool. Based on their meeting with
Steve Sullivan they understand that the plans call for the turf to be
developed this fall with the playground being scheduled for next fall.
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 4
Member Dick Carroll wanted! to clarify for the residents the reasoning
behind this particular time frame. He noted that the turf needs to be
established before any of the-long term park amenities 'can-be installed. The
Commission takes a long hard look at the demographics each year in determining
priorities for park development and the Commission appreciates the
understanding of residents in accepting the timing of park development.
Member Alt stated she was pleased to see such interest in a neighborhood
park. She noted that the Commission has not in the past looked at the option
of installing a wading pool and asked if Staff could research this
possibility. Director Vraa stated that Staff would pursue this option and
report back to the Commission. Members of the Commission expressed their
concern about considering an amenity of this type in a neighborhood park
rather than a community park. The concern was based on the number of people
that would want to use an amenity like a wading pool resulting in more traffic
than a neighborhood park is designed to handle.
Mr. Ford asked about tennis courts since there was a strong interest
shown by the residents. Director Vraa stated that the nearest courts would be
at Northview Park after they are completed. He further stated that there are
existing established thresholds for facilities based on a per thousand capita
(one court per 1750 people). Currently the city is close to the threshold on
tennis courts but with the completion of Northview we should be over the per
thousand capita requirement. There will be a joint use agreement for the use
of the courts with School District 196, however this should not greatly impede
the use of-the-courts by the public.
Understanding the importance of playground equipment in this
neighborhood park, Director Vraa indicated that the residents shouldn't be
expecting this to be installed until closer to fall, 1989. He felt that the
possibility of having an open skate area for this winter was good. The
skating area could. be placed in-such a way so as to utilize the parking lot
lights for security.
Chairman Carroll congratulated the residents for their interest and
thanked them for their-. _i.nput. . The Commission and_ City Council. continues to
try' t'o- give the'-best ^:facil-ities as fast as they can and the, support and
understanding of the community is crucial.
Director Vraa noted for the record that a skating area will. be installed
at Bridle Ridge Park this winter and if residents want more specific
information regarding the timing of playground equipment, that information
will be made available in the spring of 1989 after park schedules are
completed.
Advisory Parks and Recreaion Commission
Minutes of September 1,1988 Meeting
Page 5
NORTHVIEW PARK
NEIGHBORHOOD PETITION
Director Vraa explained that a petition was received on Friday
afternoon, August 26, 1988 from the neighborhood surrounding Northview Park
requesting that the planned lighted softball fields not be allowed to be
constructed. Mr. Vraa had had a conversation with Mark Schuldt who would be
representing the interests of the signers of the petition.
Mark Schuldt addressed the Commission and stated that he lives directly
across Northview Park Road from the proposed lighted ball fields. He stated
that the petitioners want to see how they can change the plans since the
people he's talked to have indicated they don't want the fields; specifically
the lights being planned for the fields. He further stated that the sign
doesn't say "Lighted Ball Fields", it only says "Athletic Field" and his real
estate agent told him it would be a park.
Chairman Carroll noted that when someone is ready to purchase a homesite
the best source of information for any development plans surrounding a given
area would be the City. The plans were always there, from the time the land
was purchased, to develop lighted softball fields. There was a great deal of
time and money spent in researching sites that would be conducive to an
athletic facility. Flat level land is necessary for athletic fields and this
type of land is at a premium. Some of the only other options would be to
purchase commercial/industrial land which is cost prohibitive for this
purpose.
Mark Schuldt stated that the petitioners concern is not for the existing
fields; they want to know how they can stop the proposed expansion of lighted
softball fields. One suggestion he offered was to combine fields on school
property in conjunction with S.D. 196 so that the athletic facilities would
not come so close to residential areas.
As history, Director Vraa noted that there were a total of 20 sites that
were available to look at for possible athletic sites. May, 1986 was the
first time the Northview site was looked at for expansion purposes. In July,
1986 the Council approved the acquisition of this parcel with the closing
occurring in October, 1986. When the 3 softball fields were planned the
adjacent property was zoned R-4 and later downzoned to residential. The
developers of this property directly west of the expansion property were aware
of the planned lighted baseball fields at the time they decided to develop the
residential lots. Lexington Square Addition came to the city for the first
time in 1984. The plats first came in for the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Addition
after the expansion property was considered for athletic facilities. The sign
designating this property as an athletic complex with lighted fields has been
in place for some time. In answer to the question of sharing school field
space, a drawing of the planned fields was shown to the audience noting the
school district has facilities packed as tightly as possible in the space
available and they, too, are short of fields for their planned uses. The City
and School District have entered into joint use agreements so as to use/share
facilities as much as possible.
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 6
Mr. Schuldt asked why there were no facilities for neighborhood
families. Mr. Vraa stated there are none at the present time but they are
being planned for this area. 9 to 12 tennis courts will be going into the
Northview Park, playground equipment will be installed in the park area as
well as a trail. extension and picnic area. Some other possibilities being
considered are horseshoe pits and perhaps a volleyball court. A skating rink
will not be located in this park.
Another resident asked if it was possible to move the proposed softball
fields closer to the existing softball fields or put something else in it's
place feeling that there were enough fields already. Director Vraa explained
that the City has already spent in excess of $125,000 in grading the site and
the intention is to continue the development of this parcel as athletic fields
as was originally planned. The City is looking for additional sites for
athletic facilities because the growth of the city dictates the need for
expansion in this area. In response to a question regarding the timing for
development of this site, Mr. Vraa stated that the fencing would be installed
in the spring/summer of 1989 with the lighting being proposed for 1991-1992
depending upon the need. Another resident asked if the city would be looking
at some new technology regarding the lighting of the field so as to have the
least impact on the adjacent neighborhood. Director Vraa assured the
residents that the city would be looking at all possibilities and the most
current technology in lighting would be considered providing it is not cost
prohibitive.
The traffic was another concern to the neighborhood; specifically the
impact the athletic field has on the constant flow of traffic. Again, Mr.
Vraa explained that Northview Road was built to a community feeder road
standard in anticipation of the traffic that would be generated by an athletic
facility.
Mr. Schuldt stated that he had moved into his home in December, 1987 and
although there was a sign denoting an athletic field site there was no
indication on the sign that there would be lighted fields until approximately
two weeks ago. Parks Superintendent John VonDeLinde noted for the record that
the existing sign with the words "lighted fields" was placed before the park
was graded in 1987.
Chairman Carroll thanked the residents for their interest and assured
them that the Commission was sensitive to their concerns. There will be
facilities installed in the future for small children in Northview Park and
the residents can also use Patrick Eagan Park just across Lexington Avenue for
family activities. Member Masin stated that the Commission could use any help
it can get in acquiring property for athletic sites and thanked the residents
for sharing their concerns with the Commission.
Advisory Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988
Page 7
SKATEBOARDERS PETITION
Eight skateboarders addressed the Commission with their request and a
petition to support a skateboard park in their neighborhood. There are 43
names on the petition indicating a genuine interest in this type of facility.
Tim Brummer stated that they cannot put ramps on the streets and the space
available for them to use their skateboards was very limited. They brought
copies of some ramps they would be interested in seeing constructed in a park
of this type.
Larry Frank spoke on behalf of the skateboarders noting that he had
constructed a small ramp/half-pipe in his back yard for his son and friends to
use. He stated he has an appreciation for the athletic abilities of
skateboarders and is concerned that there really isn't a place for them to
expand their skills. They are all aware of the liability issues but noted
that there were a number of successful skateboard parks in various parts of
the country that are currently operating.
After much discussion regarding the research that had been done to date
on the skateboard liability issue Director Vraa suggested that perhaps a
special event for skateboarders could be considered during the summer months.
This would give the Commission a feel for the number of people that would like
to participate in this sport. JoAnne Alt asked if Staff would look at this
option as a special event during the summer. Bob Porter suggested that the
4th of July may be a good time to do this.
ATHLETIC LIGHTING
Craig Gallop of Musco Lighting was present to update the Commission on
some of the newest technology in athletic lighting. He indicated the major
concern regarding athletic lighting was the light spillage onto adjacent
homeowners property. Until recently the only way to reduce the light spillage
was by use of louvers however this also resulted in the loss of light on the
field. Mr. Gallop also differentiated between spill light, the light that is
measurable from adjacent property and glare light, the light you see when you
look at a fixture. In the last six years there has been a great deal of
research done to try to control the amount of spillage. Their theory is that
the spill light comes from the lower 1/4 of the fixture whereas the field
light comes from the top 3/4 of the fixture. They feel that by redirecting
the lower 1/4 to the top 3/4 of the fixture it will then be directed down onto
the field. Mr. Gallop then showed a video to substantiate this theory.
Member Masin asked if this type of lighting is currently being used to
test out the theory. One of the systems has been installed in Rochester and
another is being planned for Minnetonka where homes are within 600 feet of the
fields. The question of extra cost was addressed by stating that installation
on a new field would cost approximately 5-7% over sportscluster lighting;
Sportscluster 2 would be 5-6% more whereas Level 8 would be 6-8% more. Member
Carroll noted that it was important to look into this lighting option and that
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 8
perhaps a test site would be a start. Director Vraa indicated that time would
be spent looking into this lighting option and current installation would be
monitored for effectiveness.
MCCARTHY HOUSE
Director Vraa noted for the Commission that per the memo on this item,
it had been determined, after inspection, that this house had no historical
value. The house had been used in the past as storage for the Eagan Athletic
Association but it has since been emptied. Staff has researched the cost for
demolition which has been estimated at $3400 - $4700. Additionally the well
will have to be capped. Member Masin questioned if Dakota County or the
Minnesota Historical Society had been contacted to inspect this property in
the event it had historical value. After further discussion, Sandy Masin
moved that if after checking with Dakota County and Minnesota Historical
Society there is no historical value to the home that the building be
demolished. The motion was seconded by Dick Carroll with all members voting
in favor.
DAKOTA COUNTY SOIL AND WATER CONSERVATION
Director Vraa explained that the information provided on this issue was
the preliminary report and the classification of ponds in the Eagan parks.
John Barton notes in his letter that there will be a public hearing on these
water bodies. Noting the magnitude of the information it was suggested that a
work session be scheduled to review it. A date has not been set for the
public hearing as yet but it was suggested that the work session take place
before the public hearing so the Commission could have some input. Wayne
Sames noted that there had been three meetings and that this was just-a
partial list of the pond classifications. He asked if the Commission could
get a map showing all the ponds and their classifications. Mr. Vraa noted
that a storm sewer map would be prepared for the next Commission meeting.
TRUST FUND
Director Vraa explained that John. VonD.eLinde. had prepared a.. position
paper and tried to broaden the range of possibilities in the use of this fund.
Mr. VonDeLinde noted that the report addressed various issues including
funding, the need for long range planning and the prioritization of
management. The report explores a wide range of alternatives at this point
and the Commission needs to direct Staff on how they should proceed. Member
Masin stated this was a tremendous idea but felt the Commission needed more
time to cover the many issues addressed in the position paper. Dick Carroll
commented on what an excellent job staff had done in putting this together but
concurred this item would take much more review and discussion. along with:a
great deal of cooperation with:the City Council in making this work. One
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 9
priority would be to make sure dollars were expended each year so that the
public would see that the money was being used for the purposes intended.
Wayne Sames recommended setting up a subcommittee after the Commission has had
an opportunity to review the position paper further. After further discussion
the item was tabled and would be reviewed further at a work session.
RAHN ROAD TRAIL
Director Vraa reminded the Commission that a request had been made to
install the trail link on Rahn Road south of Diffley to the Highline Trail now
that work was progressing with the realignment of Rahn Road. After further
discussion, Sandy Masin moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting
in favor to recommend the installation of a bituminous trail on Rahn Road
south of Diffley to the Highline Trail.
PARKS DEVELOPMENT
An update of pending parks development shows that Thomas Lake shelter
building is still awaiting laminated beams in order to continue with the
construction. Slater Acres park has been rough graded and the rock has been
laid for the trailways. Ohmann Park is currently undergoing bulk grading and
the preliminary indication is that there will be sufficient topsoil to
complete the park.
TURF RESEEDING
With the extensive damage done to the turf following the drought this
summer, John VonDeLinde outlined for the Commission the procedure that would
be followed to try to re-establish turf. Aeration would be the first step,
followed by seeding, fertilization and broadleaf herbicide. Central
Landscaping will be doing the shallow disking and seeding but one full year.of
turf establishment has been lost. The greening up of the parks after the last
rains is due to the crab grass that has grown. The new seed would not be able
to compete with the crab grass thus it will be destroyed with Round-up and
then seeding can begin.
NORTHVIEW PARK - TENNIS COURTS
Steve Sullivan reviewed for the Commission the site at Northview Park
just south of Field 5 near the pond where the proposed tennis courts will be
installed. It is possible to get 12 tennis courts in this site but it may be
cost- prohibitive because of, the amount of grading necessary to make that
configuration work.
Mr. Sullivan reviewed Diagram A which shows 11 staggered courts similar
to the configuration of Blue Cross/Blue Shield courts. The playground area
would go directly adjacent to the tennis courts, pond and picnic area. This
plan is more a "pod" concept rather than "bank" style courts with two pods
containing 4 courts and one pod containing 3 courts.
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 10
Diagram B showed 10 courts in a "bank" configuration with the picnic
area to the north of the courts.
Diagram C again shows a "pod" design for 10 courts; one pod of 4 courts
and two pods of_3.courts. The stagger in this configuration allows the use of
the existing grade or with less grading than the other layouts require. The
playground would stay in the same area as Diagram A.
Mr. Sullivan noted that he felt Diagram C was the most cost effective
option at this point based on these preliminary drawings. In reference to the
cost for lighting and fencing, it would be more cost efficient to do a bank of
courts rather than the staggered layout but all other factors should remain
the same. The school district will be making the final determination on the
number of courts to be installed based on the cost estimates. Mr. Vraa noted
that in their considering more than 10 courts they may have to look at
extensive grading and development costs because of the topography of the land.
The consensus of the Commission was that the "pod" configuration was more
aesthetically pleasing and would tie into the existing topography better. Mr.
Sullivan noted that there was further work necessary on the plan and he will
proceed with the plans based on the Commission recommendations and comments.
COMMUNITY CENTER
Director Vraa reminded the Commission members that the next scheduled
design charette for the community center would be September 21, 22 and 23. An
agenda would be provided as soon as it became available.
HAPPENINGS
Director Vraa mentioned that the City of Burnsville would be hosting the
1989 Summer Star of the North Games and they have approached the communities
of Eagan, Apple Valley and Lakeville for field space during the event. Mr.
Vraa wanted to alert the Commission to the possible request from Burnsville
for Eagan facilities. There is some concern, however, regarding stopping the
use of Eagan's planned field use for this period of time. Sandy Masin asked
how Burnsville could have been awarded this bid without first having been able
to provide the facilities needed.
COMMISSION PICNIC
The date of Friday, September 23, 1988 was set for the annual Commission
picnic at Trapp Farm Park. The invitations will be sent out shortly and a
committee will be set up to handle the food. Volunteers will be needed to man
the grill!
Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes of September 1, 1988 Meeting
Page 11
OCTOBER AGENDA
Just as a reminder, Director Vraa advised the Commission that the Parks
Dedication Review and 1989 Parks Project Review will be handled at the October
Commission meeting.
Chairman Carroll stated the Commission was pleased to see that Dorothy
Peterson was back in action again after her recent surgery.
With no further business to conduct, Sandy Masin moved, JoAnne Alt
seconded with all members voting in favor to adjourn. The meeting was
adjourned at 11:10 P.M.
DATE SECRETARY