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10/06/1988 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA OCTOBER 6, 1988 A regular.meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order at 7:45 P.M. on Thursday, October 6, 1988 with the following Commission Members present: Dick Carroll, Wayne Sames, George Kubik, Ted Billy, JoAnne Alt, Sandy Masin, Michele Swanson and Bob Porter. Staff present included Landscape Architect/Parks Planner Steve Sullivan; Parks Superintendent, John VonDeLinde; Recreation Supervisor, Dorothy Peterson; Parks Secretary, Cherryl Mesko; Parks Intern, Mel Bailey; and Recreation Intern, Beth Mundy. Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa was not present. AGENDA George Kubik moved, Bob Porter seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as presented. MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER 1, 1988 MEETING With the change of "Purple Strife" to "Purple Loosestrife", Sandy Masin moved, George Kubik seconded with all members voting in favor of accepting the minutes as amended. EAA/RAAA FACILITIES USE REPORT Recreation Supervisor Dorothy Peterson updated the Commission on the ongoing negotiations by EAA, RAAA, District 196 Community Services, and the City of Eagan to facilitate the space needs and the growth of the associations to-meet- the athletic needs of youth in the City of Eagan. Some of the issues that have been- discussed include the growth of the various associations and how space will be used by these groups, the marketing of similar programs in the;.schools by different associations and field allocations to meet all the needs.->--Both associations feel that by using shared flyers, merging some of their existing programs, working cooperatively in creating new programs, al-lowing-"people to sign up with either association but have the programs dovetail will offer much more flexibility for both the users and the facilitators of these programs. Dorothy indicated that under the guidance of the Parks and Recreation Department these meetings will continue on a monthly basis to keep the associations on track. The next step is to encourage them to look towards the future, long term, in determining the best way of allocating field use. 196 Community Services has become very active in their participation and continues to be supportive in providing services to the associations. It was noted that Mend-Eagan Athletic Association opted not to participate in the meeting feeling that their needs were being met within the 197 school district. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6, 1988 Meeting Page 2 Dick Carroll thanked Dorothy for coordinating the effort in getting this issue on track noting that it looks like there is some very good cooperation occurring to resolve these issues. SNOWMOBILE POSITION - 1988-89 SEASON Dorothy Peterson reminded the Commission that in December, 1987, the Commission recommended to the Council that the Highline corridor be discontinued as a snowmobile trail. The Council took action on this issue in January, 1988 making this policy effective. The police department is questioning the snowmobiling issue for the 1988-89 season. Wayne Sames asked if the police are concerned because of problems that occurred last year or are looking for a reinforcement of the policy. Dick Carroll noted that snowmobiles can now proceed on city streets at a speed of 10 MPH on their way to a residence or on their way to or from a county park where snowmobiling is permitted. Sandy Masin indicated the difficulty in enforcing the 10 MPH speed limit by the police because it is very hard for them to follow an offender once they take off cross-country. The park rangers have been able to monitor this activity to some degree but it seems apparent that many violations occur during the winter season. JoAnne Alt suggested not allowing use of snowmobiles unless it is on private property since the streets and park property continue to get much of the snowmobile traffic even though they are not allowed on any city park property. After much discussion, George Kubik moved to have staff research the restriction of snowmobiling to private property within city property with due consideration of County, State and Federal governing bodies. Bob Porter seconded the motion with all members voting in favor. LAKE CLASSIFICATION Parks Superintendent VonDeLinde brought the Commission up to date on the progress of the classification process being conducted on all the water bodies within the city of Eagan. Information has been gathered on the water bodies from Met Council, PCA and by water samples. The exhausting inventory was completed in 1987 with the standards established as 1) Direct contact (swimming); 2) Indirect contact (canoeing); 3) Wildlife; 4) Storm water management (nutrient trap); 5) Sediment basin; 6) Storm water retention (no quality water standards). With the preliminary classifications made, public hearings will be conducted soon for input regarding the classifications to date. A draft report has been completed which takes all information done to date and sets a model of water quality for the tested water bodies based on the impact surrounding residential, commercial development will have on them. The management plan would then have a predetermined water quality determination so that the quality of run-off into these ponding areas would be the responsibility of the developers. This arrangement would be made before Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6,1988 Meeting Page 3 the parcel was completely developed and become a part of the development agreement. Mr. VonDeLinde expressed some concern with the results of the report feeling that it was rather sketchy and that the results of the sampling did not show an_accurate reading. Wayne Sames stated that a representative from the Pollution Control Agency and the Soil and Water Conservation Department had problems with the models. The PCA cautioned the results because the sampling was done during an extreme drought condition showing much higher phosphorous levels than would be the case under normal conditions. The nutrient level appears to be higher than it normally should. John VonDeLinde also noted that the report is addressing only 12 out of over 300 water bodies in the city which also obscures the results somewhat. Sandy Masin asked if the model could be changed. John VonDeLinde responded that they should go back in 1989 and redo the samplings to see if that would be a more accurate reflection of the water quality. When asked the purpose of the models Mr. VonDeLinde responded it was to help predict land use in surrounding areas,and determine the impact of development on water bodies. Once the standards are set the City could make sure the developers live within those guidelines and implement policies that are established to maintain water quality. Another concern Mr. VonDeLinde expressed was regarding classification. Bur Oaks, for example is designated as direct contact. The report notes that for a cost of $38,000 a chemical injection system could be implemented to reduce phosphorous on a long term basis, however, the results would not be known for a period of 2 years. He feels this just is not comprehensive enough to substantiate an expenditure of this kind for one water body. George Kubik noted from his experience that models don't predict, they seldom offer options and one must be very careful with communication on these issues. Innsummary;,°Mr ^VonDeLtnde±,,noted that a.~ssubcommittee. needed to meet to cover some of -these issues, suggesting a date of 10/24,88, before the Water Quality Oitizen's'Commit'tee i's convened on ~ November 3, 1988 to,respond to the report results to date. After the November meeting a final draft will be prepared, go to the Council, followed by public hearings regarding the classification of water bodies in Eagan. Wayne Sames noted that this is the first time an effort of this type has been attempted in the metro area. After further discussion, Wayne Sames, JoAnne Alt, Dick Carroll and John VonDeLinde agreed to serve on the subcommittee to review the report to date and make recommendations for the final report. The date was set for the week of October 17, 1988 with a subsequent meeting with the Water Quality Citizen's Committee on November 3, 1988, 4:30 P.M. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6,1988 Meeting Page 4 WADING POOLS Park Intern,. Mel Bailey provided the Commission with an in-depth study of wading pools which encompassed researching several metro communities that currently use or have used wading pools as part of the park system. Mr. Bailey stated that the liability issue continues to be one of the greatest concerns to date. In St. Paul, for example, their pools are staffed whereas Minneapolis has no staff supervision at their pools; they do require a parent to accompany the child, however. The cost for staffing the pool is approximately $5,400 per year and the actual construction of Minneapolis' last pool was $102,000 which did not include the cost for showers, changing areas or any other peripheral requirements mandated by state code regarding pool usage. Dick Carroll thanked Mel Bailey for the extensive and well written report on wading pools. JoAnne Alt expressed her disappointment in the cost for constructing such a pool, hoping that it would have been more economically feasible. Dick Carroll noted that another large cost factor after construction would be the on-going maintenance which is reported to take 2 hours each day. Sandy Masin asked that a copy of this report be provided to the Bridle Ridge park representative since they had first approached the Commission for a pool of this type. DEPARTMENT HAPPENINGS JoAnne Alt questioned why there was a large pool of water at the bottom of the slide in Carnelian Park. John VonDeLinde stated that the spiral slide was installed at a slightly lower elevation than was anticipated creating the ponding at the bottom of the spiral slide. The situation is being taken care of to eliminate the ponding in this location. George Kubik questioned Item #5 regarding Goat Hill Park. Dorothy Peterson responded that the meeting was held to insure better communication next year when the various clubs and organizations are wanting to use Goat Hill facilities. The Commission was reminded that the annual Spook Trail was being held on Monday, October 31st from 6-8 P.M. and volunteers are needed! CONSENT AGENDA The following consent agenda items were presented for approval. On a motion by George Kubik, seconded by JoAnne Alt with all members voting in favor, the Commission approved recommendation to the City Council of the following items: 1. Kraft, Inc. - That this waiver of plat be subject to a cash parkland dedication. Adivisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6, 1988 Meeting Page 5 2. Roseagan Addition - That this proposal be subject to a cash parkland dedication and that an 8 foot bituminous trail be placed along the east side of Dodd Road. PARK DEDICATION Steve Sullivan recapped the memo prepared by Director Vraa regarding proposed park dedication fees for 1989. As the growth of single family homes continues to accelerate, an adjustment in this area is suggested from .0046/sq. ft. to .0048/sq. foot. The anticipated growth is expected to be between 750 and 1000 units per year based on estimates by the Planning Department. John VonDeLinde noted that the Commission may want to consider the implementation of the Natural Resource Trust Fund at this time as a means of generating revenues for the fund's designated uses. He also stated that the Commission should be very careful to clearly define the intention of the Trust Fund. Member Kubik questioned where the $5-10 range came from in setting a fee for the Trust Fund and it was noted that this was simply a starting point, a suggestion for the Commission to consider. After Mr. Kubik stated he felt this amount was too low, Member Porter suggested the Commission consider a fee closer to $25 per dwelling unit which would generate between $18,750 to $25,000. Further discussion by Commission members suggested recommending up to $50 per dwelling unit depending upon what legal ramifications, if any, need to be considered. Another suggestion was to place a large amount of the money in trust as it is collected and allocate the balance for the various programs as they will be defined initially. Sandy Masin indicated that she was a little uncomfortable with the $50/living unit amount proposed for the Trust Fund. She had no problem with the $25 amount, however, felt that $50 was excessive. After further discussion regarding commercial/industrial and residential dedication fees, George Kubik suggested the Commission recommend increasing commercial/residential to .05/sq.ft., accept the single family, duplex, townhouse/quads and apartment recommendation as presented and recommend a.$50 per living unit fee for the Trust Fund. Steve Sullivan noted that this issue was presented for Commission review and that the November meeting would be a more appropriate time to make final recommendations to the Council. George Kubik then moved, Bob Porter seconded with all members voting in favor to table the discussion and recommendation of park dedication fees for 1989 until the November 3, 1988 Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission meeting. TOWN HALL Steve Sullivan explained that the relocation of the historic Town Hall was an issue that was being presented to the City Council this evening. The Commission had recommended that the relocation and preservation of the Town Hall be addressed and Steve presented two concept plans that would be presented to the City Council also for their recommendation. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6, 1988 Meeting Page 6 In looking at the relocation of the Town Hall the current operation of the Fire Administration Building with the existing parking facilities was taken into consideration. Currently the parking lot has 38 parking stalls which becomes inadequate when there is a large event such as the Seniors meetings. Concept "A" as presented by Mr. Sullivan shows the expansion of the parking lot to 50 spaces that can accommodate both Seniors and fire department meetings. This plan shows a circular courtyard with the Town Hall moved to face the parking lot. Concept "B" shows the Town Hall oriented toward Pilot Knob Road leaving the parking lot at the present 38 parking stalls. Wayne Sames indicated that he appreciated the Council's Historic Committee's request to have the Town Hall oriented toward Pilot Knob but in doing so it looses the symmetrical effect with the courtyard as presented in Concept "A". Sandy Masin suggested nestling the Town Hall more toward the wooded area west of Pilot Knob and still incorporate the courtyard effect that was shown. After further discussion, George Kubik moved, Sandy Masin seconded with all members voting in favor to recommend the placement of the Town Hall west of Pilot Knob Road, oriented perpendicular to Pilot Knob Road with the expansion of the parking lot to 50 parking spaces. The second option would be to place the Town Hall parallel to Pilot Knob Road with the parking lot expansion. PARKS PROJECTS Parks Planner Steve Sullivan updated the Commission on the various projects that are underway to date. The Pilot Knob hockey rink light contract has been let with scheduled completion expected by Christmas vacation. The rough. grading is completed at Bur Oaks and the fine grading will be done in the spring. The rough grading is underway at Heine Lake and the sun shelter can be installed next spring if the Commission recommends its completion. The curb is in at Carnelian Park and Mooney Lake continues to be worked on. The parks trail is being installed at Slater Acres Park with landscaping to be done this fall. Trails staked this fall include Wilderness Run Road .from Trapp Farm Park to Dodd, within Trapp Farm Park to Wilderness Run Road.'and Rahn Road from Diffley to the Highline Trail. Steve Sullivan then reviewed the Parks Development Status matrix showing an update of all the parks development to date. The Commission thanked Steve for the excellent job in updating them on all this information noting is helps them see at a glance how development is proceeding. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6, 1988 Meeting Page 7 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES Steve Sullivan reviewed the list of items Staff had compiled denoting park improvements that can be looked at and prioritized for the 1989 season. Noting that this was a very big list, Steve asked that the Commission give direction as to the highest priority items they felt should be completed. George Kubik asked that Staff provide the Commission with the dollar amount and time left to complete the Park Bond Fund items noting that these items should be the highest priority. Bob Porter recommended that Mooney Lake be the highest landscaping priority item. George Kubik asked that Staff review the list of possible park development items and 1.) determine the dollars remaining in the Bond Fund; 2.) make recommendations on what can realistically be accomplished based on the number of people hours required. The item was then tabled until the November 3, 1988 Commission meeting. COMMUNITY CENTER Steve Sullivan reviewed the results of the second Design Charette with Hastings and Chivetta regarding the site and preliminary concept plan of the interior of the building. The site plan shows the police access restricting public access, the building has shifted to provide for green space to the east of the building and the building shows the potential of possible expansion of a second ice sheet. The upper floorplan had all of the programming facilities that had been requested by the various focus groups. The ice arena is entered on the upper level through the air lock coming into the central gallery area with seating down to the arena allowing for a controlled access. The meeting rooms were not located where they had originally been requested, however, this is an issue that is being discussed with the architects. The lower level provides access again to a control area to get to the gymnasium and natatorium with glassed walls/windows to the south. Some of the changes that have been suggested after the preliminary review have been to move the recreation, meeting rooms toward the front of the building, have the arena office overlooking the ice for control and move the zamboni room to the south side of the building. Consideration is also being given to providing a service road entrance off Rocky Lane to the south side of the building. At this point in time the architects have been given some of the requests for changes and are working on the suggestions that have been provided. Steve Sullivan reviewed the time line for the Community Center stating that the most critical meeting would be November 29, 1988 between the Council and Commission to review the architectural design, cost and Reaction Committee's comments and then to provide direction to the architects. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6, 1988 Meeting Page 8 Dick Carroll stated that Ken Vraa had met with the library people and they have been very positive about the proposed site change. They are very supportive and want to help make this a successful project. Mr. Carroll also indicated that the Commission needed representatives to serve on the Reaction Committee for the Community Center. Michele Swanson and Dick Carroll volunteered to serve in this capacity. The first meeting will be Thursday, October 13, 1988 at 7:00 P.M. PARK REPRESENTATIVE MEETING Dick Carroll noted for the record that the second Park Representative meeting would be held on Thursday, October 20, 1988, 7:00 P.M. at the Eagan Municipal Center. MAINTENANCE MANAGEMENT PROGRAM Parks Superintendent VonDeLinde reminded the Commission that the first review of a maintenance management program occurred last fall. The classification of programming maintenance for facilities and the application of these programs has been done on a site by site and facility by facility basis. In establishing these programs, along with the turf management programs, a resource manual has been compiled to help facilitate all of these needs. The goal for establishing these manuals and programs is to come back to the Commission so that policies can be set relative to on-going maintenance for both facilities and sites. Data sheets will also be completed to provide on-going maintenance at each facility to establish consistent maintenance/replacement guidelines on a long term basis. Member Carroll noted that once this program is complete and approved it will serve as an excellent basis for budgeting and maintenance purposes. WARMING HOUSE John VonDeLinde recapped the intention of purchasing the mobile warming house that the Commission visited before the meeting. George Kubik felt this was an excellent idea and felt the installation of a mobile facility would save money in the long term enabling it's use at a different location if the need was there. He suggested a review after the winter season use, possibly in March or April to see how effective this type of building was. Wayne Sames questioned the cost of renting a mobile unit as had been done in the past. It was noted that the rental was $800 -1,000 plus dealing with the vandalism that occurs. By purchasing the trailer outright the debt can be retired in 7 years and the trailer would still be usable by the department. After further discussion, the consensus from the Commission members was that this was an excellent investment and should be open to consideration at a later date as well. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6, 1988 Meeting Page 9 LILLIAN MCCARTHY PROPERTY Dick Carroll clarified for the Commission members that the property in question is located directly adjacent to the existing Patrick Eagan Park. Steve Sullivan explained that the Commission's intention has been to try to acquire this parcel of property from Mrs. McCarthy as part of Patrick Eagan Park. Negotiations have been underway with Mrs. McCarthy but the last conversation between Ken Vraa and Mrs. McCarthy indicated that Mrs. McCarthy was not interested in selling at this time. Some of the options the Commission needs to consider are 1) not to pursue the acquisition of this property, 2) begin condemnation proceedings while continuing negotiations with Mrs. McCarthy hoping for an equitable resolution for all parties. Steve Sullivan noted that Mr. Vraa's recommendation at this point would be option 2 but because of the concern for Mrs. McCarthy the negotiations should include the understanding that she is to be allowed to stay on her property, in her home for as long as she would like. Member Masin wondered where the $48,000 amount came from and it was noted that this was a dollar amount requested by Mrs. McCarthy for temporary and permanent easements. Sandy Masin further questioned the condemnation process noting that once it started, it could not be stopped. It was noted that it could be terminated once an agreement is negotiated. Member Carroll expressed his preference in condemnation only if a life estate was part of the understanding from the beginning. After further discussion, George Kubik moved to recommend to the Council that condemnation proceedings begin concurrent with continuing negotiations with Mrs. McCarthy with the understanding that a life estate for Mrs. McCarthy be made a part of the condemnation proceedings. As a note of explanation to the record, this action is taken due to the inability to negotiate the purchase of this property to date and that it has always been the intention of the Council and Commission to purchase this property. The motion was seconded by Bob Porter with all members voting in favor. RAHN ROAD TRAIL Steve Sullivan explained that the installation of a trail along Rahn Road from Diffley to the Highline Trail had been approved by the City Council earlier this evening. There were residents present who suggested that the trail would not be safe and that it would devalue their property, however the Council remained firm in their support of the total trail system. UNISYS TRAIL Steve Sullivan brought the issue of a trail between Quarry and Pilot Knob Parks back to the Commission based on a recent meeting with Unisys regarding their understanding of the location of the trail. The agreement with Unisys places the trail directly behind the residents' homes to the west Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6, 1988 Meeting Page 10 and southwest of Pilot Knob Park near the north/northwest corner of the Unisys property. A list has been compiled of the neighboring residents and a meeting should be scheduled to make them aware of the trail plan. Staff is looking for direction from the Commission on how this should be handled. George Kubik noted for the record that this is an issue that has been brought to the Commission on several different occasions, that Unisys has been a very difficult neighbor to deal with and it is not appreciated. Member Masin asked if there was a round about way to connect these two parks without having to go through these neighbors back yards. Steve Sullivan responded that it was possible but the trail would be 8 times the distance as crossing in this location. George Kubik again expressed his frustration in the fact that there have been 3 verbal agreements in the past with Unisys to do this trail and the actual alignment always seems to change when it gets to the point near construction. It was also noted that this agreement was part of the tax increment funding that was provided by the City. Mr. Kubik stated that the first agreement for a trail was a diagonal line from Pilot Knob to Quarry over the gas line, the second was on the road side of the berm around the Unisys property and now the third shows it going through the back yard of residents adjacent to the Unisys property. After futher discussion, Dick Carroll asked that this item be tabled until the November 3, 1988 meeting. In the meantime, Staff is directed to research the agreement with Unisys to determine exactly what the City has agreed to rather than accept the interpretation of the agreement as well as determining the timing of the agreement. Dick Carroll moved, George Kubik seconded with all members voting in favor to table this issue until November 3, 1988. SITKO CLOSING INTERVIEW Dorothy Peterson and John VonDeLinde conducted an exit interview with Mr. Sitko recapping his first year's experience with his portable vending business. Mr. Sitko indicated that he recovered 10% of his costs but that he met some neat people during the experience. He is looking forward to starting on the first day of the softball season next year. Dorothy indicated that the comments from park users were very favorable and that Mr. Sitko did an excellent job in cleaning up after each use. EVERGREEN PARK John VonDeLinde explained that this item was informational for the Commission. Thomas Lake Park and Evergreen Park have been designated as well sites for some time. The plans are to drill one of the wells in Evergreen Park this winter on the south side of the pleasure rink. This will be a permanent structure incorporating the shelter designs that have been used in Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of October 6,1988 Meeting Page 11 existing shelter buildings. John also noted that there are 7 wells that will go into this well field. George Kubik asked if mitigation would be considered for the disruption to the park area. ROUNDTABLE Chairman Carroll asked if there were any comments on the letters that had been attached to the packet. Sandy Masin asked why the townhome owners at Woodgate were the only people being assessed for trail extension along Johnny Cake Ridge Road. Steve Sullivan responded that R-1 owners cannot be assessed for trails, thus the multiple zoning and commercial/industrial zoning owners are responsible for this expense. Dick Carroll asked the Commission members to take note of the letter regarding the skateboarding liability issue. George Kubik asked if there has been proper safeguarding along Fish Lake on Pilot Knob for erosion control. Steve Sullivan indicated that they had done a good job to date but would physically inspect and report back to the Commission his findings. George Kubik asked who had agreed to the chain link fence along the east side of Pilot Knob near LeMay Lake. Steve Sullivan explained that originally he had drawn a fence design using tubular fence as an example, designating the color and design however the design was never put into the development agreement. Member Kubik asked how the parks are recovering from the drought. Mr. VonDeLinde responded that everything is going very well at this time. The reseeding is done but the status of the trees will not be fully known until next spring. With no further business to conduct, George Kubik moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting in favor to adjourn. The meeting was adjourned at 11:00 P.M. DATE SECRETARY