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11/03/1988 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA NOVEMBER 3, 1988 A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order at 7:00 P.M. on Thursday, November 3, 1988 with the following Commission Members present: Dick Carroll, Ted Billy, Sandy Masin, JoAnne Alt, Michele Swanson and Bob Porter. Commission Members not present were Wayne Sames and George Kubik. Staff present included Director of Parks and Recreation, Ken Vraa; Landscape Architect/Parks Planner, Steve Sullivan; Parks Superintendent, John VonDeLinde and Parks Secretary, Cherryl Mesko. Recreation Supervisor, Dorothy Peterson was not present. AGENDA Director Vraa requested that Informational Reports be added as Item #8 under Other Business and Reports. With that addition, Sandy Masin moved, JoAnne Alt seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as presented. MINUTES FROM OCTOBER 6, 1988 MEETING With the addition of JoAnne Alt being present at the October 6, 1988 meeting, Dick Carroll moved, Bob Porter seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes as presented. CONSENT AGENDA The following consent agenda item was presented for approval. On a motion by JoAnne Alt, seconded by Michele Swanson, with all members voting in favor, the Commission approved recommendation to the City Council of the following: 1. THOMAS G. SLATER ADDITION - That this proposal be subject to a cash parkland dedication. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS It was noted by Dick Carroll how unique it is not to have any development proposals to review. A most unusual situation. RAHN CLIFF PLAZA - POND AP44/KETTLE PARK Steve Sullivan reminded the Commission that it has previously recommended a policy regarding water run-off to ponds on park property. This site's southern property line is directly adjacent to the northerly unimproved section of Kettle Park. The primary use for this undisturbed area is for storm water retention as identified by the Comprehensive Storm Sewer Plan with the ponding area being referenced as AP-44. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 2 The pond layout presented by the developer of this parcel originally showed two ponds within the park in addition to the existing pond which caused serious disruption and relocation to the existing trailway. A revised submission was then done which created one deeper pond to mitigate the impact of run-off. With this design, water from the newly created pond can backflow into the existing park pond and raise the high water level approximately .3 of a foot. Although the effect on the park is undesirable, it is tolerable. After much discussion Dick Carroll moved to concur with the Planned Development of the ponding area for sediment trap and overflow into the main pond of the park but that this takes the park to it's full capacity. The developer to the northwest is responsible to provide their own storm water capability. The motion further stated that landscape screening along the north boundary be carefully planted with evergreen species and further screening be provided on the southwest edge of the storage pond and trail to assist in screening the park from the commercial area. In addition an environmental manhole be installed in Park Hill 2nd Addition. The motion was seconded by JoAnne Alt with all members voting in favor. PARKS DEDICATION Director Vraa responded to questions the Commission had raised at the October Commission meeting regarding the legality of adding money into the park dedication fees for a trust fund. He pointed out that Lakeville currently has a program that is handled in this fashion with a certain dollar amount allocated for trails and trail maintenance. The primary considerations for the Commission in determining the adjusted rates are (1) are they fair, reasonable and is there a relationship between demand/impact of development on the park system and (2) is payment of the fee easier for the developer than challenging it. Director Vraa suggested that the Commission could add $10, for example, and earmark it for trails or allocate another amount for whatever specific use the trust fund will provide. Sandy Masin asked if there would be a problem with the bookkeeping. Mr. Vraa stated that the allocated monies would be put into the Park Site Fund until specific policies and guidelines were set up for the Trust Fund, thus the establishment of the Trust Fund is important. Mr. Vraa suggested addressing the Trust Fund issue separately since more ground rules will need to be established before this goes to the City Council. After further discussion, Bob Porter stated he felt the fees presented were appropriate and justified and moved to accept the parks dedication fees for Commercial/Industrial as $.05/Sq.Ft.; Single Family , $514.00; Duplex, $480; Townhouse, $408; and Apartments/Multiple, $415. Dick Carroll seconded the motion with all members voting in favor. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 3 Member Carroll stated he felt the $10 figure being considered for the Trust Fund was not enough. Michele Swanson asked for a clarification of the Trust Fund monies. Is the proposed $10 amount being added onto the amounts that have just been approved or are they a part of the approved dedication fees? Mr. Carroll noted that the Trust Fund monies would be taken from the park dedication fees collected from developers, i.e. $514.00 single family rate reflects a $22 increase over 1988 and of that, $10 would be allocated to the Trust Fund. Michele Swanson stated she felt the Trust Fund amount should be over and above the increase projected for parks dedication. JoAnne Alt also stated she felt the amount for the Trust Fund should be separated. Bob Porter stated he felt reforestation was an important aspect of the Trust Fund because some of the impact to parks is due to developers and they should be held responsible. Dick Carroll noted that there may be a legal issue in treating the parks dedication fund and trust fund separately. Sandy Masin noted that she would like to see $20 added to the trust fund for each developed unit but since the amounts that have been approved won't allow that kind of increase wants to amend her vote. Michele Swanson also stated that she would like to reconsider her vote. She felt the increase approved was appropriate for a parks dedication fee but wants to see the Trust Fund amount over and above that figure. Further discussion disclosed that in order to change the park dedication fees again the Commission would need to review the land values and be able to substantiate the increase in that value. In order to allow for a $20 amount to be allocated for the Trust Fund from the dedication fees the following land values would need to be approved: Type Land Value ed. Fee Increase from '88 Single Family $12,250 $525.00 $33 Duplex 14,250 488.00 26 Townhouse/Quad 16,250 414.00 18 Apts./Multiple 18,250 421.00 17 or 18,500 427.00 23 The main concern and question raised is whether these land values were reasonable and fair. The consensus of the Commission is that these values are indeed fair and reasonable. Bob Porter moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting in favor to rescind the previous motion regarding parkland dedication fees. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 4 Bob Porter moved,Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting in favor to recommend to the Council the following parkland dedication fees for 1989.: Single Family $12,250/Land Value $525.00 Duplex 14,250/Land Value 488.00 Townhouse/Quad 16,250/Land Value 414.00 Apartments 18,500/Land Value 427.00 Commercial/Industrial $ .05/Sq. Ft. Sandy Masin moved, JoAnne Alt seconded with all members voting in favor to allocate $20 from each per unit dedication fee to the Trust Fund for Single Family, Duplex, Townhouse/Quad and Apartments. Allocation for Commercial/Industrial will be $.01/Sq. Ft. into the Trust Fund. The motion further stated that Staff will coordinate with the Commission to set the parameters for the Trust Fund. WATER QUALITY John VonDeLinde stated that Dick Carroll, JoAnne Alt, Wayne Sames and he attended a meeting in October to review the water body classifications proposed by the Eagan Water Quality Citizens Task Force. Mr. VonDeLinde provided the Commission members with a copy of a memorandum given to the Citizens Task Force outlining the Sub-committee's comments and recommendations for the classifications to date. The Sub-committee was comfortable with the six levels of classifications, however they feel the level 3 classification needs to be expanded to reflect scenic values also deemed to be vitally important to the park user. The Citizen's Task Force is open to including this into the classification. The Water Quality Management Program initially distributed by Hickock and Associates was reviewed by the Sub-committee and the following suggestions and comments were made: 1. The involvement of other City departments is crucial to the success of this program. 2. Sounder water quality data base is needed for level 1 and 2 classifications. 3. Additional samples need to be taken and the quality of the samples from the run-off in 1988 need to be re-evaluated. 4. Specific models need to be done rather than a city-wide model. 5. It is premature to develop a city-wide implementation plan until further information is obtained. 6. Consideration of a citizen's volunteer water monitoring program to replace the long range sampling program currently being suggested. 7. The plan should be expanded to include policies and standards for new developments. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 5 Mr. VonDeLinde noted that the next step is to review the priorities very carefully and go back to the commission for ratification. The Citizen's Task Force will also be meeting with developers in the community to obtain their input in this process. At this point it appears as though it will be several months before the Task Force is ready to go to the Council with their recommendations. Once a final draft of the Water Quality Management Plan has been completed public hearings will be scheduled. Dick Carroll commented that the report was a very comprehensive recap of this very complex issue. He asked the Commission members to review the information they will be receiving in their December packet very carefully so that all concerns can be addressed at the December Commission meeting. SNOWMOBILE POSITION Director Vraa noted that the Commission had requested further information from Staff regarding the use of snowmobiles in the City of Eagan. Staff is looking for reaffirmation of current policy to discontinue snowmobile use on Highline Trail from Rahn east to Dodd and Johnny Cake Ridge Road trail south to Apple Valley. The main concern by the police department is that the current policy is difficult to enforce. Ted Billy noted that whatever restrictions have been placed to date are a very good idea and should be continued. JoAnne Alt said she felt the main issue was whether the City of Eagan was rural or had moved to the urban classification which typically does not allow snowmobiling on public property. She further stated that she would like to see them banned on public property. Bob Porter asked what the restrictions were for snowmobiling at Dakota County Parks. Mr. Vraa stated that from the parking lot you can off load a machine and use all the internal trails to get you to Rosemount, Apple Valley or simply use the trails that are provided within that park. Dick Carroll noted that the response from a snowmobile club indicated that they prefer trailering snowmobiles to a park and unloading them there rather than driving them to a site. JoAnne Alt suggested two separate motions be made; one regarding the specific trails mentioned and the other to provide for more restrictions. After further discussion, JoAnne Alt moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting in favor to not allow snowmobiling on the Highline Trail and Johnny Cake Ridge Road trail. JoAnne Alt moved, Michele Swanson seconded with all members voting in favor to recommend that no snowmobile use be allowed in the City of Eagan on public property other than crossing Pilot Knob Road to get from one portion of Dakota County Park to another. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 6 UNISYS TRAIL Director Vraa reminded the Commission that Staff was not a party to the negotiations that occurred regarding the placement of this particular trail. Unisys did not want the trail along their property line as was discussed at one point in time but the issue is do the neighbors want the trail in the location that has been presented; off Four Oaks Road near the back lot lines of homes to Pilot Knob. The neighborhood meeting date needs to be determined and a member, or members of the Commission should be present for this meeting. After further discussion, the meeting date was set for Monday, November 28, 1988 at 7:00 P.M. with George Kubik being requested to participate. WELL SITE PARK Parks Planner Sullivan reminded the Commission of the changes that were due to occur at Well Site Park when Pilot Knob road was upgraded. Among the changes that were planned were a new parking lot, a new pad would be graded for the warming shelter and the free skate area would remain. What is being considered at this time is to provide for a speed skate oval rather than a free skate area. Speed skating has been provided at different locations in the past and the interest is continuing to grow so it was felt that a 200 meter speed skate oval could be installed over the free skate/hockey rink area. Mr. Sullivan asked the Commission to direct Staff to either proceed with developing Well Site Park as was originally planned or revise the plan to accommodate a speed skate oval. Dick Carroll questioned if the hockey boards were being removed from the hockey rink and Mr. VonDeLinde responded that they are in the process of being removed presently. Director Vraa noted that at this site there has been a significant problem with the ground heaving and settling causing problems with the boards surrounding the rink. He also noted that if the speed skate oval did not attract the interest to warrant a facility of it's kind, a hockey rink can very easily be rebuilt at this location. Mr. Carroll stated he felt a speed skate oval would provide yet another activity for people to participate in in the City. Bob Porter questioned if there would be special equipment needed to build or maintain this type of facility. Mr. Vraa responded by stating that there was not special equipment needed - this was being proposed as an entry level type of facility. After further discussion, Dick Carroll moved, Sandy Masin seconded with all members voting in favor to authorize the expenditure of dollars to make the improvements at Well Site Park to accommodate a speed skating oval. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 7 PARK PRIORITIES Director Vraa reiterated that the Park Priority list was very ambitious and most likely all of the items on that list will not be able to be completed in 1989. Staff feels strongly about continuing to schedule like projects together. Since Steve Sullivan is working alone it will not be feasible to complete all the projects listed. 1989 is being looked at as a catch-up year and it is unknown how many actual contracts will be let. Member Masin asked what remains from the obligations of the referendum . Mr. Vraa stated that Wilmus and Carlson Lake Parks will be worked on in 1989, Bur Oaks and Heine Pond should be completed this year and some landscaping and reforestation still remains from the bond referendum. Mr. Carroll stated that in looking at the design and construction hours involved in the Parks Priority list it is virtually impossible to complete all of these items. He did ask if it was possible to design, build and install 8 playground facilities. John VonDeLinde responded that it was possible to get all 8 installed in 1989. Steve Sullivan also responded that this was not an unreasonable request, however the planning time for Trapp Farm will take longer than standard playgrounds because it is more involved. Dick Carroll, noting that the list was a very ambitions one, felt comfortable with the list as it was presented and suggested that Staff change the priorities as they felt necessary to complete as much of the work as possible. Steve Sullivan provided the Commission with an update of current projects. Thomas Lake pavilion is close to completion; Ohmann Park irrigation has been installed; Bridle Ridge Park has been reseeded; Slater Acres Park has been seeded; Bur Oaks Park will see parking lot and trail construction soon; Rahn Road trail will be paved next week; Pilot Knob hockey rink's lighting will be completed once the poles arrive; Heine Pond is seeded and a sand blanket will be installed soon; Carnelian Park's parking lot has been completed; Mooney Lake will wait for the frost before paving; Northview utilities are in for the proposed irrigation and shelter building but the tennis court contract is on hold; Town Hall relocation has been staked; fall landscaping will be done at Woodlands, and tennis court resurfacing is underway. After further discussion, Dick Carroll moved, Sandy Masin seconded with all members voting in favor to approve the 1989 Goals and Objectives for Parks Development as outlined by Staff with the understanding that this is a very ambitious list and Staff should feel free to downgrade the list as appropriate. COMMUNITY CENTER UPDATE Ken Vraa began by stating that the site plan remains basically the same as the last plan the Commission reviewed. The configuration of the building on the site, however has changed. The building has been compacted to make better use of space and to cut down on the square footage total. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 8 The original request for space was approximately 109,000 square feet and the program statements brought that total to 123,000 square feet, thus the need to develop a new concept for the building. The main entry to the building remains the same with the reception/office space to the right as one would enter. A spectator for the ice arena would enter the facility at another entrance and use the top/down seating provided for 800 spectators. Rest rooms and concession are provided on the second level of the ice arena. The program area for tots would overlook both the ice arena and the pool with the mechanical room also between these two facilities, closer to the end of the building. The waiting area in the core of the building overlooks the pool and is approximately 600 square feet. The fitness/training area, which is a flexible space is located between the pool and gymnasium separated from the gymnasium by a half wall to give it an open look. The community rooms show approximately 4600 to 4700 square feet with a catering kitchen and storage. The track suspended above the gymnasium and the elevator are also located near the gymnasium and meeting room portion of the upper level. A user of the facility would pay his fees at the central station on the lower level which gives one access to the warming area/changing area. Users of the team rooms and rest rooms in the ice arena can be isolated from the rest of the building by locking the doors to the central core so that the staff person on duty in the evening can be aware of all people entering and exiting the ice arena during the later hours. The gymnasium and gymnastics space are provided on the lower level with storage and two unexcavated spaces. Staff is requesting a cost estimate to excavate the area under the community rooms and partially finish it for future expansion. In the pool area more deck space has been requested and the wading pool will shrink slightly along with moving the therapy pool closer to the glassed area. The diving well/plunge pool may be shrunk slightly also. Some of the changes that have been requested from the Citizen's Reaction Committee include adding more deck space, provide a space for "messy" crafts perhaps in the unexcavated space. The Committee also expressed some concern about making the space too small. They are thinking that perhaps the plan has become too compact. Staff's concerns are for the size of the locker room area which don't seem to be quite sufficient. The tots room appears to be too small and overall, the building seems to be over-restroomed, according to code. From all of these comments, the architects will be drawing some options reflecting the changes requested. One of the concerns Mr. Vraa explained to the Commission was the meeting held with the State of Minnesota Health Department regarding the pool regulations. The State Codes were developed in approximately 1969-70 and are based on competitive pools rather than recreational pools. The Health Department had some problems with the rock formation being proposed Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of November 3, 1988 Meeting Page 9 near the plunge pool as well as the bridge proposed between two of the pools. Sandy Masin commented that some of these things are just innovative in this area and questioned if the Health Department would flex with some of their code requirements. Mr. Vraa stated that he and the architects are hopeful that they will be able to accomplish some of the changes that would make this a recreational pool rather than competitive pool. Upon seeing the plan, the Council expressed some concern regarding all the glass that is being shown in the pool area reminding the architects that this is Minnesota! The architect will review the efficiency and make modifications as appropriate. Mr. Vraa noted that the plans seem to be working very well and that the architect will be adding a phasing aspect to the plans if need be. Sandy Masin commented that she felt the family changing area was an excellent idea. JoAnne Alt stated she felt the programing for all the areas was excellent and hoped the State requirements wouldn't be such that it takes the fun things out of the proposed pools. Mr. Vraa stated that, the Health Department has indicated that the kiddies pool cannot have water coming into it from other pools and Staff has asked the architects to make that pool more curvilinear when they make their change. Director Vraa noted that the focus groups would be completing their input which will be added to the Commission's input and that of the Reaction Committee to give the architects a complete look at changes to be made in the plans. November 22, 1988 is the projected date for revisions from the architect along with refined cost estimates for the building. November 29, 1988 will be a joint meeting of the architects, Council and Commission to review the concept plans to date. Michele Swanson expressed her appreciation and congratulated all those involved in the innovative plans completed for the Community Center. HUD STATUS Director Vraa stated that the acquisition of this HUD property is beginning to take a turn for the better. Mr. Vraa will keep the Commission updated on any new changes as they occur. MILLNUS PROPERTY Steve Sullivan stated that the survey has been completed for this property, the legal description has been done and both attorneys have reviewed the land dedication agreement. A review with Staff will be done shortly to make the final arrangements to acquire this property for a park. Advisory Parks and Recretion Commission Minutes of November 3,1988 Meeting Page 10 PARK SECTION 24 Director Vraa explained that the parcel of land for discussion is south of Wescott, East of Dodd and North of County Road 30 with a portion lying in Inver Grove Heights and a portion in Eagan. The proposed development shows 200 lots being developed in Inver Grove Heights and 100 lots being developed in Eagan. Initially the developer suggested a southeast location for parkland dedication which is primarily lowland. It is being discussed that perhaps Inver Grove Heights and Eagan can enter into a joint use agreement to develop a park to serve both cities. The City of Eagan was looking at acquiring approximately 6 acres for parkland originally but with joint use, it is felt a larger parcel will be necessary. A meeting will be scheduled with the Director of Inver Grove Heights to look at some preliminary ideas and concepts. Dick Carroll questioned the acreage of the pond in the north central area of the parcel and Steve Sullivan responded that it was approximately 4 acres in size and DNR controlled. Mr. Carroll noted that the location adjacent to and north of the pond would be a good location for a park. Director Vraa responded that the flat land north of the pond would incorporate an area conducive to a playground area for the surrounding area as it is planned to be developed. Mr. Carroll suggested that Commission members visit the site if they had an opportunity to do so. OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS The Eagan Athletic Association will be holding their annual elections in November and there is some concern regarding the number of vacancies there are on the Board. Director Vraa explained that the Department had recently won a citation award for the brochure that was done in conjunction with Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Minnesota entitled "Passport to Good Health". Staff was very pleased to hear of the award which will be presented shortly. Director Vraa noted that he had the opportunity to see the new lighting system for outdoor athletic lighting that the Commission had reviewed at a previous meeting. He was very impressed with the product and will be doing a trial installation at Goat Hill to see how it works. Only part of the lighting will be changed so Staff can compare the existing lighting with the new system. Ken Vraa stated that he had recently attended the dedication of the playground equipment installed at Rahn school. The teachers, parents and children present were very appreciative of this joint effort. Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes of Novembe 3,1988 Meeting Page 11 THOMAS LAKE SEPTIC SYSTEM Steve Sullivan updated the Commission on the status of the Thomas Lake septic system. Staff had looked at different alternatives for septic systems and hired a consultant to provide the specific information necessary to make an informed decision on this aspect of the construction. Approval was obtained from the Council to proceed with the work as specified, however the specifications did not work as had been hoped. Because of the error another alternative needed to be considered and that was the installation of a drain field west of the parking lot. This change will cause some disturbance to the prairie, which can be re-established, and there will be a need for a lift station. The approximate cost of the change order will be $10,000. Mr. Sullivan stated he felt the department had found the best solution and needed authorization from the Commission to proceed with the change order. After further discussion JoAnne Alt moved, Theodore Billy seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the change order to install a septic system at Thomas Lake for a cost of approximately $10,000. With no further business to conduct, Michele Swanson moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 10:24 P.M. s r~ • C DATE SECRETARY