01/04/1990 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF
THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
JANUARY 4, 1990
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called
to order at 7:00 P.M. on Thursday, January 4, 1990 with the following Commission
Members present: George Kubik, Ted Billy, Michele Swanson, Sandy Masin, Shawn
Hunter, Dick Carroll and Jack Johnson. Staff present included Ken Vraa, Director of
Parks and Recreation; Dorothy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor II; John VonDeLinde,
Parks Superintendent; Steve Sullivan, Landscape Architect/Parks Planner; Jim Sturm, City
Planner; and Cherryl Mesko, Secretary.
AGENDA
Sandy Masin moved, Michele Swanson seconded with all members voting in favor
to accept the agenda as presented.
MINUTES FROM DECEMBER 7, 1989
Page 7, Paragraph 1, Line 6 should read, "Developers would no longer be
Dick Carroll moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to accept
the minutes of December 7, 1989 as amended.
CONSENT AGENDA
Shawn Hunter moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting in favor to
recommend to the City Council approval of the following:
POPPLER HOMESTEADS NO. 2 - LAWRENCE POPPLER. That this proposal
be subject to a cash parkland dedication. That this proposal be responsible for
constructing a six foot concrete sidewalk along the south side of Lone Oak Road
or be subject to a cash trailway dedication dependent upon the policy at final plat.
BLACKHAWK ACRES 3RD ADDITION - LES DUOOS & ASSOCIATES. That
this proposal be subject to a cash parkland dedication. That this proposal be
subject to a cash trailway dedication subject to the enacted policy at the time of
final plat.
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WEST PUBLISHING
Ken Vraa introduced the West Publishing issue to the Commission commenting that
the background would be reviewed by Jim Sturm, City Planner and Steve Bryant,
representing West Publishing would follow up with his presentation to the Commission.
Jim Sturm explained that the proponent was requesting a Comprehensive Guide
Plan Amendment, Planned Development Amendment, rezoning and preliminary plat of
six lots and one outlot. This plat encompasses approximately 208 acres of the 425 acre
Gopher Eagan Planned Development that was platted in 1976. The Gopher Eagan
development provided a 17 acre parkland dedication which is now known as Wescott
Station Park, therefore the current proposal has fulfilled its parkland dedication
requirement.
Mr. Sturm further explained that the master plan is intended to serve West
Publishing's expansion needs well into the 21st century by increasing the gross development
square footage from the existing approximately 1.35 million square feet to approximately
3.8 million square feet. Jim also noted that there would be a 150 foot, no-build buffer
strip along Elrene Road. Access would be gained from Yankee Doodle to a private
Becker Road with restricted access to Elrene. Another option may be access to Yankee
Doodle which Planning is recommending. An Environmental Impact Study will need to
be completed before any development can occur. It is hoped that this study will be
completed by May.
Steve Bryant, representing West Publishing reiterated Mr. Sturm's comment that this
plan is a long range projection leading to the full development of this site sometime
beyond 2000. Mr. Bryant also stated that the final approval is contingent upon the results
of the EIS which was required primarily due to the size of the warehouse buildings being
planned. Some of the concerns that were brought up at a neighborhood meeting were the
development of Lot 5, lighting of the site, berm between the West facility and neighbors
and the planned park development. Further the issue of storm water ponding was
resolved based on recommendations made to West Publishing by Ken Vraa and Steve
Sullivan.
Steve Sullivan commented that the berm adjacent to Wescott Station Park buffers
West Publishing from the park. Steve stated that neighborhood meetings have been held
and scheduled regarding the planning for Wescott Station park. Mr. Bryant commented
that the impression he had after the neighborhood meeting was that the residents
surrounding the park would prefer the West Publishing employees not use the park and
that the berm serve as a buffer. Shawn Hunter stated he felt it was important to provide
access to the park for both residents of the neighborhood as well as West employees. Mr.
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Bryant assured the Commission that there would be sufficient open area within West's
property so they didn't feel their employees would make use of Wescott Station Park.
Tom Gillen, 3630 Windtree Drive, addressed the Commission noting he lived on
the corner of Windtree and Elrene. He stated that the location of the access to the park
was rumored to be moved from the outlot off Ridgewood to Elrene. He wanted it noted
that he opposed the access from Elrene.
Mr. Ken Peske, 3675 Ridgewood Drive explained that he was told this park would
be a "natural" park. He has been watching the development occur in this area and if the
access to the park occurs within the outlot on Ridgewood the traffic on this "quiet" street
will increase drastically because all traffic wanting to get to the park would come in at this
location. Mr. John McNamara, 3661 Ridgewood Drive agreed with Mr. Peske's comments.
Ken Vraa explained that the issue of access to Wescott Station had not been
determined as yet, but option would be shared with the neighbors at the next
neighborhood meeting. All possibilities are being considered at this time with the toughest
issue being that of access to the park.
Mr. Rick Kinney asked if the entrance to the park had been defined. In response,
Mr. Vraa again stated that options are being reviewed at this time but no decision has
been made as yet.
Sandy Masin expressed her concern over the comment by Mr. Bryant that West
Publishing employees will not use the park. Mr. Bryant commented that the long range
plan is to build the berm larger and landscape it to provide sufficient space for employees
to walk on West's property if they so desire. He sees the problem of integrating industrial
residents and residential residents as the main concern. Mr. Bryant also indicated that if
access is gained from Elrene it will most likely bring more traffic into the park versus
having the access in a more secluded location.
After further discussion Dick Carroll moved to accept Comprehensive Guide Plan
Amendment, Planned Development Amendment, rezoning and preliminary plat of six lots
and one outlot as presented and that the proposal be responsible for the construction of
an eight foot bituminous path along the east side of Elrene Road and the south side of
Yankee Doodle Road or a cash trail dedication dependent upon the policy at the time of
final plat. The motion was seconded by Jack Johnson with all members voting in favor.
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In conclusion, Ken Vraa thanked Steve Bryant for the cooperative effort he
displayed in getting the proposal issues resolved. George Kubik thanked all those
attending the meeting for coming and for their input.
WILLMUS PARK SITE - SCHOOL DISTRICT #196
Ken Vraa commented that page 22 of the packet shows the original concept plan
for the Willmus Park Site and page 23 shows the new concept plan which ties the park
into the school site.
Eric Linner, representing the architect for School District 196 indicated that in
laying out this school site they tried to preserve the natural beauty inherent with the
property. It was determined that two soccer and two softball fields would be needed on
the site. Softball field #2 was moved to accommodate an ice skating area. The hard play
and soft play area would remain close to the building and a trail would tie into existing
trail proposed adjacent to the site. Ken Vraa noted that the building design is consistent
with that being used at Pine Ridge and that the plan is to have this school open by
September, 1991.
Mr. Vraa further noted that the joint development use agreement has not been
completed to date but it would be similar to the one done for Woodlands School/Mueller
Farm Park. The development would reflect S.D. #196 being responsible for grading and
site development whereas the City would be responsible for playground installation and
maintenance. George Kubik commented that this type of agreement has worked out very
well in the past and looks forward to continuing this type of joint effort.
Jack Johnson asked how the public would access the proposed skating rink. Mr.
Vraa commented that they would need to use the trail on the south side of the site.
Concerns were expressed by several Commission members regarding how much use the
rink would actually get because of it's rather secluded location and expressed concerns
regarding the maintenance of the ice rink. Other locations for the rink were talked about
but it appeared that there were no other viable options for location because of the space
constraints with this site and the facilities that needed to be provided.
Mr. Jerry Bertsch, Principal on Special Assignment for School District 196 indicated
that the school had worked very carefully with the architects to try to incorporate all the
uses necessary for this school site and they felt the layout was the best use of space.
Relocating the rink to another location would involve further grading than was anticipated.
He explained that although the school would make use of the rink, it was not part of the
school's programming for physical education.
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After further discussion, George Kubik moved, Jack Johnson seconded with all
members voting in favor to recommend the approval of this park layout plan without the
ice rink at this time but to leave the option open to add a rink at the original location at
a later date.
KETTLE PARK - SAND VOLLEYBALL COURTS
Dorothy Peterson reminded the Commission of their request to review possible
locations for sand volleyball courts. The recommendation was to include positive and
negative impacts on the parks and surrounding neighborhoods and to consider single or
double court configurations. Information regarding location with neighborhood parks was
also requested.
Five issues were identified as elements to be considered as the base of comparison
of the parks for this use. They were: external. considerations, use relationships, support
facilities, site considerations and special conditions. Further sand volleyball court users
were classified in three categories; leagues, reserved and casual.
Page 29 of the packet shows the limitations by park at the community parks and
athletic sites for this type of facility. Goat Hill, Ohmann and Thomas Lake would all have
severe limitations and Blackhawk and Thomas Lake picnic areas would be impacted
negatively by league play.
Steve Sullivan commented that Northview Park would meet the criteria for a double
court except for spatial limitations. Twenty trees would need to be relocated at this site
and a survey would need to be done to identify exactly how this could be done. He
further stated that Rahn Athletic meets all the criteria except for parking. A double court
could be build adjacent to field 4 in the warm-up area. Another location could possibly
be the Lexington/Diffley site where all criteria would be met. Finally the high school site
east of field #3 would be a possibility meeting all criteria, however this would require
special permission from S.D. #196.
Dorothy Peterson examined the possibility of installing a court in a neighborhood
park. She noted that with the exception of Bridle Ridge all other neighborhood parks
have a conflict with the criteria established for this facility. Bridle Ridge has the best
layout for courts in a neighborhood park. The areas of caution to be considered in
providing this facility in a neighborhood park include the demand to conduct 'league" play
at the site. Introducing a community type activity into a neighborhood park presents
potential problems for parking and compatibility to the adjacent residences and represents
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a reversal of the City's desire to remove high impact community action from neighborhood
parks. Secondly, priority should be given to a community park which seems the most
appropriate location. Thirdly, volleyball as a neighborhood activity can be conducted in
local parks by setting up a net on poles within general open play turf areas. Finally, if
this is to become an "optional" park facility, equal distribution should be a park planning
criteria.
George Kubik thanked staff for a very comprehensive and thorough report. Shawn
Hunter stated he agreed that this type of activity belongs in an athletic park, i.e. Lexington
Diffley or Rahn Athletic but he wouldn't want to see one at Northview. Ted Billy
suggested that Blackhawk be considered as a potential site when that park is being
developed. When Sandy Masin questioned where casual users would go John VonDeLinde
responded that it would most likely be a two tiered system; league play being designated
at an athletic site, i.e. Rahn or Lexington/Diffley and casual play would be designated at
Blackhawk and Trapp for example.
Ken Vraa commented that if this double court facility were to go into a
neighborhood facility first it would be used as a community facility. He suggested putting
this type of activity in a community park first where it can absorb the numbers of users.
Dan Smith, 2024 Vienna Lane stated that he disagreed with this explanation. He
suggested that sand volleyball courts belong in neighborhood parks where people within
those neighborhoods could participate. Ted Billy suggested that perhaps sand volleyball
could be considered in neighborhood parks as an option. Dorothy Peterson commented
that we should not preclude using these courts in neighborhood parks but that they must
be placed very carefully considering the cost implications of doing so.
Sandy Masin suggested that if a double court was going to be installed in 1990 that
Rahn Athletic seemed to be the most viable option. Michele Swanson expressed her
concern for the parking limitations at this site.
After further discussion, Shawn Hunter moved to recommend the design and
construction of a double sand volleyball court at Rahn Athletic with future consideration
given to constructing one at the Lexington/Diffley site. George Kubik added that the
updated Park System Plan should cover this facility use as well. Ted Billy amended the
motion to include sand volleyball courts in the design of Blackhawk Park. Sandy Masin
seconded the amended motion. The vote was six for and one against with the motion
passing.
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KETTLE PARK - ICE SKATING RINK
The Commission was reminded they directed Staff to review the status of skating
facilities in the city, provide pertinent demographic information and consider short and
long term perspectives and maintenance concerns. One of the questions for consideration
is whether a 1 hockey rink per 3000 people and 1 pleasure rink per 3000 people a valid
standard. Also, given the limited resources, which park site should have the next rink.
Consideration needs to be given to the short and long term support facilities that might
be required to continue established standards of operation and the maintenance costs
implications.
Dorothy Peterson explained that on page 40 of the packet the existing skating
facilities and the standards for each district were outlined. Page 41 of the packet outlined
the parks by Park Planning District and the Neighborhood Service Area indicating the
actual skating surfaces that exist. Dorothy indicated that at the present time we do not
have hard demographics on the use of pleasure rinks throughout the city. Work is being
done this year to get as much of that information as possible. She was surprised to see
such a concentration in the north and northwest part of the city.
Steve Sullivan noted that the layout concerns for an ice rink are 5,000 to 52,000
square feet with a typical free skate area consisting of 12,000 to 17,000 square feet. Some
concerns are for good pedestrian access and support facilities to enhance the skating
experience. The most critical issue is that there be a flat gradient for flooding. Steve
noted that there may be three possible options for skating at Kettle Park. One could be
the northwest corner of the park which would need to be regraded in order to work. The
cost for the regrading would be approximately $2,000. Second location could be on the
softball field, but, again there would be a sloping problem. The third, and least desireable
location would be skating on the pond.
John VonDeLinde addressed the maintenance issue, noting that the 1990 budget
does not allow for additional staff for maintenance, therefore, all work for the additional
rinks that have been added will need to be covered with existing staff. He noted that at
Kettle Park the 1.2% slope Steve had talked about would require berming on the south
and east side of the rink and in order to flood the rink it would require more flooding
than usual to provide a flat surface. The cost for doing this type of berming would be
approximately $3200 per year in additional maintenance and labor. The concern for turf
establishment after a rink has been installed is great. It is almost impossible to get turf
to grow after a rink has been established, thus there would be additional cost in trying to
re-establish turf after the skating season. Adding Kettle Park as a skating site would
provide for an incremental increase in service and would be a reactionary measure.
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George Kubik noted that this request was received last year and given the limited
resources available it would be necessary to close an existing rink in order to open a new
one. Dorothy Peterson stated that consideration needs to be given to realigning skating
areas and there is also a need to consider adding on a new facility if needed. Mr. Kubik
added that it would be important to look at a systematic approach to adding additional
rinks.
Mr. Daniel Smith commented that he had cleared off the pond area and found that
kids were out there skating right away. He also indicated he had checked with an attorney
who explained that when the kids were on the pond they were there at their own risk and
that Mr. Smith would not be held responsible for having cleared the snow away.
Dick Carroll and Steve Sullivan both expressed their concern regarding the stability
of the ice on this pond because of the bounce in the pond that can create unsafe ice
conditions therefore were uncomfortable looking at the pond as an alternative.
Shawn Hunter indicated that the addition of skating rinks should be addressed
under the Master Parks Plan because of the budgetary concerns. George Kubik
commented that there is a need to review usage of ice rinks each year because the use
will increase at some sites and decrease at others.
After further discussion, George Kubik moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all
members voting in favor to deny the short term request for a pleasure ring at Kettle Park
and moved to establish a yearly review of ice rink use.
DRAFT MISSION STATEMENT - NATURAL RESOURCES
George Kubik provided the Commission members with a Draft Proposal for Natural
Resources Mission Statement and Proposal to Amend Charter for Eagan Advisory Parks
and Recreation Commission. He noted that this proposal would need the coordination
of other City staff before going before the City Council.
John VonDeLinde suggested that the Commission have this draft ready for the
Council to review at a January 30, 1990 meeting where the water quality issues will be
reviewed. One of the crucial issues to be discussed is the implementation of the Water
Quality Plan and the Mission Statement would tie directly into that.
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After further discussion, George Kubik moved to have staff formalize the Mission
Statement with a recommendation to change the name to Eagan Advisory Parks,
Recreation and Natural Resources Commission and the department's name to Eagan
Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Department. The motion further stated that the
proposal should be prepared for the City Council to review on January 30, 1990. Dick
Carroll seconded the motion with all members voting in favor.
LANDSCAPE POLICY - PART 2
Steve Sullivan noted that no further information was ready for Commission review
on this issue.
NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS - CARLSON LAKE AND WESCOTT STATION PARK
Steve Sullivan explained that neighborhood meetings had been scheduled for the
Carlson Lake Park neighborhood on Monday, January 29, 1990 at 7:00 P.M. A
neighborhood meeting for Wescott Station Park has been scheduled for Wednesday,
February 7, 1990 at 7:00 P.M. Commission members are invited to attend.
PROJECT STATUS MATRIX
As requested by the Commission, Steve Sullivan distributed a project status matrix
outlining the park projects that were completed under the bond referendum, what was left
to be completed under the referendum and the status of development of all parks.
HAPPENINGS
John VonDeLinde explained that the-video tape that Jon Oyanagi had prepared
for the Commission included winter use of the parks. It covered skating lessons at
WellSite Park, the new hockey rinks and skating area at Bridle Ridge Park , the snow
tubing activity at Trapp Farm Park and the skating area at Slaters Acres Park. Also
included was a video presentation of the maintenance required to establish and maintain
the ice skating surfaces. The Commission was able to see the equipment used to establish
the ice surface and the work the crews do to maintain them on a regular basis, i.e.
operation of the Zamboni, sweeping of the rinks, flooding of the rinks, etc. Dick Carroll
commented that this process is very well planned and carried out. Sandy Masin asked if
this video could be shared with the public somehow so that they could get an idea of how
much work goes into maintaining the rinks. John VonDeLinde commented that this had
been done in 1987 but nothing had been done since.
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WINTER WEEKEND
Dorothy Peterson recapped some of the activities that would be included during the
Winter Weekend of February 2, 3 and 4. Included are a snow sculpture contest, family
skate, cross-country skiing, ice fishing, speed skating meet, sliding party and a snow softball
tournament. Commission members are encouraged to participate in this weekend.
TRAPP FARM PARK UPDATE
Ken Vraa stated that a letter had been sent to Tri-Land before Christmas regarding
this issue,however, no response has been received to date.
PILOT KNOB PARK LIGHTING
Steve Sullivan reminded the Commission of the downlighting that had been installed
at the free skating area in Pilot Knob Park. The neighbors have lived with the situation
for one week and it appears as though they are happy with the lighting now. Mr. Kubik
commented that Mr. Kanne had called him to thank the City, and Steve in particular, for
a job well done in resolving this issue.
Sandy Masin asked about the January 7th snowmobile meeting. Ken Vraa
commented that this was a meeting to get public input on snowmobiling in the community.
At this point in time it is legal to ride snowmobiles, however, the way the ordinance reads,
it makes it very difficult for people to actually ride legally within the city. Additionally,
the police have had trouble enforcing this ordinance so it was felt it was necessary to
review the existing ordinance at this time.
With no further business to discuss, Shawn Hunter moved, Michele Swanson
seconded, with all members voting in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was
adjourned at 10:50 P.M.
ECRETARY DATE