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04/03/1990 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA APRIL 3, 1990 A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order at 7:00 P.M. on Thursday, April 3, 1990 with the following Commission Members present: Jack Johnson, Ted Billy, Sandi Wensmann, George Kubik, Michele Swanson, Shawn Hunter, John Griggs and Dick Carroll. Staff present included Ken Vraa, Director of Parks and Recreation; Dorothy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor II; John VonDeLinde, Parks Superintendent; Steve Sullivan, Landscape Architect/Parks Planner; Paula Nowariak, Recreation Supervisor; Jon Oyanagi, Recreation Supervisor; Jennifer Peterson, Intern; Cherryl Mesko, Secretary. AGENDA Shawn Hunter asked to have Trapp Farm Park added to the agenda and John Griggs asked to have Beacon Hill/Brittany Addition added to the agenda. Shawn Hunter moved, Michele Swanson seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as amended. MINUTES FROM MARCH 8, 1990 Page 2, Paragraph 3, Sentence 4 should read, "It was noted that Carlson Lake does not meet the requirements outlined for a neighborhood park. Carlson Lake, Oak Chase and Well Site parks all serve this park service area." Page 7, Paragraph 2 should read, "Mr. Kubik invited the public to address the Commission to address their views." Page 9, Paragraph 4, Sentence 1 should read, ".......neighborhood has been one of the best.....:' Page 10, Paragraph 3 should read vehicular traffic. The Commission discussed no parking directly in front of homes adjacent to the park entrance ................asked if this type of access would be preferable and acceptable to them...... Ted Billy moved, Jack Johnson seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes as amended. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 2 ARBOR DAY PROCLAMATION John VonDeLinde explained that pages 18 and 19 of the packet provided information relative to the Arbor Day celebration being planned for April 28th. He asked the Commission to approve the Arbor Day Proclamation. Dick Carroll moved, George Kubik seconded with all members voting in favor to approve the Resolution for Eagan Arbor Month as presented. John brought the Commission up to date on the events surrounding Arbor Month culminating with the Arbor Day festivities at Trapp Farm Park. Again this year third graders from Eagan schools were asked too participate in a poster contest. Six hundred fifty posters were completed and the Commission was asked to select the winner from each school based on three finalists from each school. They will also be asked to select the grand prize winner from the winners. The grand prize winning poster will be used for the 1991 Arbor Day poster. Both Mr. VonDeLinde and Mr. Schuster will visit the schools during the week of April 23rd to present the winning posters to the third grade classes. Arbor Day celebration will be held at Trapp Farm Park on April 28 from 1-4 p.m. and will be an "open house" format. Entertainment is being planned and special prize drawings will occur at the end of the program. The announcement of the grand prize poster winner and the ceremonial tree planting will wrap up the afternoon. John indicated a special thank-you should be addressed to First Bank Eagan for their generous contribution to this event. Mr. VonDeLinde explained that 831 requests had been received for the tree sale this year. Commission members are being solicited to draw 350-400 registrants from the total entered so the winners can be notified by mail. The drawing and the poster selection will be completed during the Commission's break. George Kubik asked staff to send a letter of thanks to First Bank on behalf of the Commission for all their contributions to this successful event. CONSENT AGENDA There were no consent items for the Commission to review. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 3 UNISYS 2ND ADDITION Steve Sullivan explained that this proposal is for the preliminary plat of two lots on 130.7 acres of research and development zoned property on the Unisys campus. The request is to divide the existing lot where the CSD facility is located. The result is a lot with the CSD facility and an additional buildable lot along with the existing ballfield complex. After further discussion, Shawn Hunter moved, Ted Billy seconded with all members voting in favor to make the following recommendations: 1. Lot 2, Block 1 of Unisys Park, 2nd Addition, be subject to a cash parks dedication. 2. Lot 2, Block 1 of the Unisys Park, 2nd Addition, be subject to a cash trailway dedication. EAA STORAGE Ken Vraa reminded the Commission that alternatives have been considered regarding the request from the Eagan Athletic Association to help them find equipment storage space for youth athletic programs. Based on the options that were available it appears a this time that the most viable alternative is the consideration of a building mirroring the one proposed at Northview. The storage building would be approximately 1000 square feet with 940-950 square feet of usable space. The construction of the building would be consistent with other park shelter buildings and would compliment the proposed building for that site. At this time it is anticipated that the construction may be done in-house rather than by adding it to the shelter contract. EAA would be responsible for the cost of the materials which is projected in the $13,500 -15,000 range. Although the board of EAA has not met regarding this cost figure, it is expected that they will be supportive of the concept. EAA's primary concern is that of permanence and they would like to have some assurance from the City of Eagan that this can be a permanent location. Ken further stated that if the association is unable to generate $15,000 the first year they would like to have the option of spreading the payments over 2-3 years if possible. George Kubik asked if there is any precedent regarding this issue. Mr. Vraa stated there was none. Ted Billy asked if Parks and Recreation would pay the $15,000 cost up front and have EAA reimburse them followed by another question asking what would happen if the funds weren't earned in 2-3 years. Ken responded that EAA was planning a fund raiser for this specific purpose and if it wasn't as successful as projected they would allocate a portion of the yearly membership fee, possibly $.50 per family, to the building ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 4 fund so that a constant source of income could be generated for this purpose. Fund raisers would continue until the total debt was paid. Ted Billy suggested having Parks and Recreation staff build the building, have EAA collect the $.50 per member, per year until all the monies were collected. Mr. Kubik asked what the timing would be on this issue. Mr. Vraa commented that it should appear before the City Council on April 17th or May 1st so that the Council is aware of what is happening. After further discussion George Kubik moved, Michele Swanson seconded with all members voting in favor to have staff prepare a memo covering EAA's responsibilities and the City of Eagan's responsibilities regarding the construction of a storage building as well as addressing insurance and liability issues and responsibilities. OAK RIDGE PARK (WILLMUS PARK) Ken Vraa informed the Commission that the plans for Oak Ridge Park (Willmus Park) were done to reflect the revisions to eliminate the skating area as the Commission had requested. He further stated that the bids for this site came in under what was expected and a preconstruction meeting was being held shortly with dirt moving to begin Monday or Tuesday of next week. FEES AND CHARGES Ken Vraa stated that beginning on page 24 of the packet there was information for the Commission to review and respond to regarding the basis for charging fees for facility use. Because of the growth of facilities it has become obvious that organizations and groups are wanting to use the facilities available within the city. Responding to users of Northview tennis courts, for example, has brought up the question of what fees should be assessed. Dorothy Peterson stated that page 33 was a summary chart showing the amount and kinds of fees charged by other communities and it only indicated that there is no consistency in how these fees are assessed. What needs to occur is to tie in with the philosophy of who the city charges for these facilities and under what circumstances. George Kubik asked if there was any consensus to the information Dorothy had compiled. She stated that the only common denominator was that there was no fee charged for youth in-house programs. There was such a large amount of information for the Commission to absorb the request was made that staff establish a prioritization of who should and should not be charged fees and under what circumstances. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 5 After further discussion, Ted Billy moved to have staff prepare a list of priorities of usage and a fee structure for the Commission to respond to at the May meeting. George Kubik added that a philosophy statement as well as a priority list of users should be a part of this report. Dick Carroll seconded the motion with all members voting in favor of it. WATER QUALITY John VonDeLinde explained that the Storm Water Drainage Plan had been completely reviewed by both Parks and Recreation and Engineering and the expectation is that the Council will approve the plan as presented. Regarding the Comprehensive Water Quality Plan, the Developers Task Force met to discuss this plan and give their final comments. The task force understood the need to provide ponding on site and agree that this type of policy is important. John further stated that a public hearing was held on March 22 with 22 residents and 2 reporters present. Public input included a surcharge for golf courses, phosphorous monitoring, increase in education, and setting up an experimental site to test types of fertilizer, etc. John continued that on April 3rd the Council met and approved the Water Quality Management Plan but expressed their concern for the costs involved for the developers. This issue will go to the Planning Commission on April 24th after which the City's attorney will draft an ordinance change which will go back to the Council for final ratification. Ken Vraa reminded the Commission of the possibility of taking of additional responsibilities if it is to become the Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission. It is possible that the water quality issues may come back to this body however, further discussion is required. TREE ORDINANCE Ken Vraa stated that no new information was available for the Commission to review at this point. Council has directed that this issue go to the Developer's Task Force for their review before proceeding on to the next step. YOUTH POSITION ON COMMISSION Dorothy Peterson stated that per the Commission's request she had checked to see if other commissions had experience with a youth position on their commission. After checking with MRPA to see what other communities may offer this option she found that there were none they were aware of to date. She did note that the Burnsville School ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 6 Board had a very good experience with their youth position. Some concerns Dorothy raised related to the voting rights of a youth regarding city code issues or legal issues. George Kubik stated that it was the consensus of the Commission to have a youth representative on the Commission and that perhaps the position would be one of an advisory, non-voting nature. Shawn Hunter stated that he didn't think voting would be a problem. Jack Johnson questioned the catalyst for doing this since he didn't hear of any requests by students to participate in this manner. He felt the impetus should be coming from youth if they felt the need/desire to participate. He further wondered if this would begin at this level would it follow that there should be a youth representative on the City Council or in county and state committees and commissions. Shawn Hunter responded that the desire came from the Commission and felt it was very important that youth be involved specifically in the things that affect youth. Ted Billy stated that if youth input is what the Commission is looking for the question becomes can one student represent the ideas of such a large area. Perhaps another way of addressing this issue would be to meet in the schools with groups the Commission is targeting. John Griggs disagreed stating that he liked the idea of a youth representative and perhaps a subcommittee of youth may be an option to consider. Sandi Wensmann stated she was concerned about the interest a student would have regarding some of the issues that are discussed at regular meetings. Michele Swanson suggested that perhaps a subcommittee of youth that would isolate on recreation issues would be a compromise in this instance. After further discussion George Kubik moved, John Griggs seconded a motion to have staff explore the City Code and regulations to explore the concept in an attempt to form a group of three representatives to serve as advisors to the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission focusing their interest on the Recreation sub-committee. Ted Billy stated that he felt it was a better idea to get better representation from students by way of their Student Councils or other already organized groups. Shawn Hunter expressed his concern in trying to get all those people together at one time. With a motion and a second on the floor a vote was taken with 6 voting for and 2 voting against. The motion was carried. George Kubik stated that this venture would be an experiment however the selection process would need to be determined. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 7 PROPOSED LAND DONATION Ken Vraa explained that Mr. Bob Lane had contacted him concerning a tract of land he wished to donate to the City of Eagan for park purposes. Mr. Lane lives on Lot 6 of the Lakewood Hills addition and the land he wishes to donate is Lot 5. North of this tract of land is city owned Outlot A of Walnut Hill Park. The donation would be made with the understanding that this would remain as parkland and not be sold or developed. Ted Billy noticed that the only access to the parcel is a private gravel road and asked what kinds of improvements would need to be made the city takes over ownership. Mr. Lane explained that it was a dedicated but not accepted road. The homeowners association maintains the road and if the city were to be a property owner would share in it's pro-rata share of maintenance as well. John Griggs asked for a clarification regarding the tax assessment numbers outlined in the packet. He asked if the county assessor had given substantiation to the 667% increase from $3600 to $28,000. He further stated he would hold off making any decision until this issue had been discussed by the property owner and the county assessor. George Kubik stated that the only use he saw for this parcel at this time was passive use. Dick Carroll asked if Mr. Lane had talked with his neighbor to see of a land swap could occur with one taking the north side of the two lots and the other taking the south side of the two lots. Dick further suggested then donating the north half of the two lots to the city which would extend the Walnut Hill Park section to the north edge of the pond. Mr. Lane stated that the only thing to be gained in this scenario would be access to the pond. Dick Carroll questioned if the owner of Lot 6 would be open to this option. After further discussion, Dick Carroll moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to table this issue to allow time to analyze the feasibility of acquiring the north half of both lots. The motion carried. George Kubik thanked Mr. Lane for attending the meeting and for his generous offer. Mr. Lane indicated he would talk to the neighbor involved to see is he is open to doing the land swap described. OUTDOOR POOL Shawn Hunter explained that over the last few months he has gotten a great deal of input regarding outdoor pools and the need to have one in the city. The people he talked to didn't want an indoor pool because they were inside so much of the year that they wanted to recreate outdoors when the weather would permit. He further stated that ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 8 people expressed their frustration at the overcrowding of Schultz Beach, the fact that it was not centrally located, the insects and the fact that they just miss having an outdoor pool. He then went on to share some of the results of the survey done for the community center referendum noting that most people in the area would use a pool. He felt the construction of the middle school in Eagan eased the indoor swimming situation therefore it would be appropriate to look into the feasibility of an outdoor facility. Other Commission members concurred with the comments that the public has expressed regarding this need. Ted Billy commented that the only information missing from the survey included whether or not the residents were willing to pay for it. He then questioned what the cost would be for an outdoor pool. Not sure of what size or type of pool the Commission was leaning toward, Mr. Vraa responded that it could range from $400,000 to $2.5 million. John Griggs commented that he felt it was timely to revisit this issue and begin to get costs together for a pool. Shawn Hunter asked to have staff gather information on wading pools, regulation pools, high dive, wave pools and any other information that would be helpful in proceeding with this issue. He also felt a scaled back survey should be done to include information such as age of person being surveyed, number of children in household and ages, how many times would they use an outdoor pool and what features they might be looking for. After further discussion George Kubik directed staff to come up with 3-4 alternatives for the Commission to respond to with a range of pool sizes, costs (from low budget to elaborate), and a vehicle to reach the community for their input. John Griggs asked that the operational costs be included and Jack Johnson asked that the liability issue be addressed as well. Further, John Griggs added that if an outdoor pool proposal would prove to have community support then tax increment financing should be considered for it's construction. YMCA/ICE ARENA Ken Vraa reminded the Commission that at the March Council Meeting to discuss TIF and the proposed ice arena Pam McCrea had suggested looking at placing the proposed ice arena/YMCA on the city owned park property located at Lexington and Diffley. The last input from the YMCA is that they may be interested in operating an ice area, however they were not open to funding the initial construction of the facility. The Y's proposal includes a pool, gymnasium, locker rooms and meeting rooms with a fund raiser needed to raise the necessary $600,000 to begin this project. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 9 The concern that was expressed regarding using the Lexington/Diffley site for a proposal such as this was the legality of using land purchased with Park Site Fund dollars for a proposal such as is being discussed for the ice arena/YMCA. Ken suggested that perhaps a shared facility might be considered, i.e. athletic site and YMCA sharing parking facilities. Another concern raised is that the YMCA has not determined positively that this is the site it would choose for a facility. The only criteria they have set to date is the consideration for distance from the West St. Paul and Burnsville facilities as well as easy access to the site. Shawn Hunter expressed his concern that the TIF issue should be dealt with separately rather than bringing all these issues together. George Kubik stated that the City must be careful in considering alternatives to the site until a complete analysis is available. John Griggs asked what kinds of things would be given up if the ice arena/Y were to be placed on this site. Ken stated that some of the things that had been considered for this site would be compromised but until more information is available it is hard to speculate. George Kubik stated that the Commission has struggled for more than 5 years trying to get a parcel of land large enough to accommodate athletic facilities which are in great need. Dick Carroll and Ted Billy stated that the city is very fortunate to have been able to obtain a parcel of land this size to accommodate future expansion of athletic facilities. After further discussion George Kubik suggested that staff look at the legality of using property purchased with Park Site Funds in this fashion, analyze the impact to the preliminary proposal for this site as an athletic facility and consider alternatives available to the city regarding the use of this site as well as identifying another site for the YMCA. Ken responded that finding a site is the ultimate responsibility of the YMCA because of their need to identify location requirements and parameters. TRAPP FARM PARK Ken Vraa explained that the Council had reviewed the issue of purchasing lots adjacent to Trapp Farm Park so as to maintain the integrity of the sliding hill at this site and also to maintain the buffer area between the park and homes. After discussions with the developer it became evident that a land swap was not going to work. Another options that was suggested to the developer was placing a covenant on the back portion of the lots restricting construction or storage on those lots. This would retain the integrity of the lots and still allow a buffer between the park and homes. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL S, 1990 MEETING PAGE 10 The Council voted 3-2 not to buy any of the lots adjacent to Trapp Farm Park or to seek a covenant on those properties. They further clarified that if staff could come up with an acceptable agreement within the next week the Council would revisit that proposal. A question arose regarding the value of the covenant. Ken stated that the developer was not able to come up with a dollar amount that he was comfortable with on this issue. After further discussion, George Kubik moved, Shawn Hunter seconded the motion to send a memo to the City Council asking them to reconsider the purchase of 4 lots and explain again the reasons the Commission feels so strongly about preserving the integrity and the investment in this park. Seven voted for and one voted against the motion. The motion was passed. George Kubik added that if another option became available he would be willing to address it at a special meeting. DAVID CARTER LETTER John Griggs brought up the letter from David Carter regarding the Beacon Hill and Brittany neighborhood regarding the ponding area near their homes. It appears that the pond level has dropped significantly in the last year and the residents would like the City to reclaim the pond. George Kubik asked if the major problems with this water body had been identified and Mr. Griggs responded that it appeared to be primarily sedimentation. John also stated that the neighborhood is willing to put some dollars together to help the City resolve this problem. George Kubik suggested that the DNR may be better able to help at this point since staff wouldn't have the expertise to address this issue as in depth as would be necessary. Dick Carroll noted that many residents are seeking this same kind of relief because of the drought the last two years. Mr. Griggs responded that the residents in this neighborhood are concerned for the value of their land and feel they are paying more taxes because they are surrounding water. They are very willing to help in whatever way they can but are looking for assistance and guidance from the City. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 11 PARKS DEVELOPMENT Steve Sullivan noted that Contract 90-1 for park construction at Carlson Lake and Wescott Station Park and Contract 90-2 for park shelter buildings are very close to being let. The contract for 90-2 will have a bid opening date of April 20 and an update memo will be provided to the Commission regarding the status of these two contracts as work progresses. WINTER/SPRING PROGRAM UPDATE Jon Oyanagi explained that it was a crazy winter with the inconsistent weather that was experienced. The ice skating season started with one week of sub-zero weather followed by a January that was warmer than December. This had an impact on the skating season as well as the maintenance. Eleven skating sites were open and the sliding site was only open for 2-3 weeks. Skating lessons and broomball leagues were very successful and the 4-man hockey league will return again next year. After visiting all the sites it was obvious that they all were used at one time or another. Jon also expressed his concern in having a telephone at all of the sites where there is an attendant staffed. George Kubik suggested looking into the option of portable phones. Jon explained that softball registration has been completed with 197 teams ready to play in 1990. This equates to having 26 games being played a night. Paula Nowariak stated that there were 41 volleyball teams that participated this year compared with 24 last winter. Speedskating was again popular this winter and they were very lucky to have scheduled practice and meets on days where the weather was fairly cooperative. Paula added that for the spring programs Tiny Tots had to again be expanded. There are now seven classes of Tiny Tots with the pre-school programs growing to capacity. Another project Paula is involved in is meeting with middle school groups to see what programming can be implemented to work with the teens in the city. What was surprising was that almost every suggestion these kids made was for a program that either was currently offered or had been offered. The main problem is that they don't seem to be getting the information they need when they need it. They suggested getting separate information to them by way of a flyer, etc. Paula will also be visiting at the elementary school level to explore possibilities at that age level as well. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 12 Activities coming up include the Fun Run on May 5 and Olympic Torch Run on July 2 which will have some of the Summer in the Park kids participating in. HAPPENINGS A question was asked regarding the School's Out Party. Jennifer Peterson answered that 9 children participated in the first event where they participated in crafts and games, had pizza and sundaes and a fun time. The second event has been planned for tomorrow. MAY PARK TOURS Ken asked if the Commission wanted to resume its policy of visiting parks during the summer months to become familiar with what is happening at different sites. George Kubik stated that this has always been a very significant part of the learning curve for the Commission and felt it was very beneficial and should be continued. Ken noted that members would meet at 6:30 PM starting in May and be back at the Municipal Center for the meeting to begin at 7:30 PM. DAKOTA COUNTY TRAILS Mr. Vraa explained that the Council had taken under advisement the Commission's position regarding Dakota County trails and a letter was sent to the county. A follow up meeting will be held on April 17 regarding this issue and Ken invited any Commission member available to participate. VERN BOLTE LETTER Page 51 of the packet references a letter from Vern Bolte asking that the pond near Kettle Park be fenced in for the safety of the children surrounding the area. One of the major concerns over this issue is the fact that there are over 300 water bodies in the city that could be requesting the same thing. Ken stated that this is a tough issue and it's difficult to find an easy resolution. Dick Carroll commented that this discussion had been held some time ago and it was felt at that time that if the city were to begin fencing water bodies they would most likely need to fence them all. George Kubik commended Mr. Bolte for drawing the Commission's attention to this situation. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF APRIL 5, 1990 MEETING PAGE 13 After further discussion, Ted Billy moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to reaffirm the city's position to not fence the pond at Kettle Park. With no further business to conduct, Shawn Hunter moved, Ted Billy seconded with all members voting in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 10:30 P.M. ©lf ~O SECRETARY DATE