Loading...
09/06/1990 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order at 7:30 P.M. on Thursday, September 6, 1990 with the following Commission Members present: Dick Carroll, Shawn Hunter, Lee Markell, John Griggs, George Kubik, Jack Johnson and Ted Billy. commission Member Michele Swanson was not present. Staff present included Ken Vraa, Director of Parks and Recreation; Stephen Sullivan, Landscape Architect/Parks Planner; Dorothy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor II; John VonDeLinde, Parks Superintendent; Paula Nowariak, Recreation Supervisor, Jon Oyanagi, Recreation Supervisor and Cherryl Mesko, Secretary. AGENDA Shawn Hunter moved, Dick Carroll seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as presented. MINUTES FROM AUGUST 2, 1990 MEETING Dick Carroll moved, Ted Billy seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes as presented. CONSENT AGENDA Shawn Hunter moved, Jack Johnson seconded with all members voting in favor to make the following recommendations to the City Council. GOPHER SMELTING-WAIVER OF PLAT. That the incorporated parcel be subject to a cash parks dedication and that the incorporated parcel also be subject to a cash trailway dedication. WOODLANDS NORTH ADDITION (REVISED)-ROBERT ENGSTROM COMPANIES. That the entire development be subject to a cash trails dedication and that the entire development with the exception of Lots 1-5, Block 1 and Lots 1, 2 and 7, Block 2 be subject to a cash parks dedication. CARLSON LAKE PARK George Kubik invited the residents in attendance to address the Commission with their comments and opinions. He further asked that residents state their name and address for the record and limit their comments to five minutes. Mr. Kubik reminded the audience that the position of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was to make recommendations to the City Council based on knowledge of the Comprehensive Park Plan and the input from residents who would be using the planned facilities. The Commission attempts to be open to all comments and concerns in trying to plan park facilities that will meet the need of the majority of residents. George continued that the one thing the Commission did not want was to have park development be a vehicle to separate a neighborhood. Rather, it should be an opportunity for a cooperative effort. Design should be a structure of opportunity. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 2 Barbara Andrew, 4227 North Carlson Lake Lane addressed the Commission and presented a petition that had 116 signatures requesting that Carlson Lake Park be completed as was originally planned and approved. The people on the petition wanted access to the lake and also wanted to see a playground area for children to use that would be closer to their homes. Neil Raisanen, 1276 East Balsam Trail reminded the Commission that the first petition presented to the City Council regarding the improvements to Carlson Lake Park addressed the outrage of residents over the tree destruction that had occurred to accommodate a trail. He continued that a letter was sent to Ken Vraa today to be distributed to the Advisory Commission members outlining neighborhood objectives for Carlson Lake. Mr. Raisanen continued that there currently is public access to the park on the south and the east. He stated that everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, he asked the Commission to consider who would be impacted the most by the destruction at Carlson Lake; would it be the occasional users of the playground or the people directly surrounding the area. Mr. Raisanen stated that no one was opposed to the park but reiterated the seven items he felt were the neighborhood objectives. Those included 1) Return to a "passive" park as directed by the City Council. 2) Do not introduce any man-made structures. 3) Eliminate asphalt, hard court, playground equipment and trail. 4) Smoothen out the rough turf on the south side. 5) Reforest all denuded areas as soon as possible. 6) Correct the excess grade on the northwest slope. 7) Reseed the grassland prairie like areas immediately to prevent erosion. Mr. Raisanen continued that a playground on the south side of the lake would be dangerous. The lake is 30 feet deep in some areas and his concern is that a child will be attracted to the water which could be potentially dangerous to that child. He suggested that there were no homes immediately surrounding Oak Chase Park, therefore there is not as much impact on residential homes as there would be at Carlson Lake. He stated his concern for the noise transmission that would occur with the development of this park and asked the Commission to consider that this park is not the same as other parks in Eagan and that it should remain a passive, natural area with no development. John Tumini, 1310 East Balsam Trail stated that he had just moved into the area last year partially because of the beautifully wooded area. He stated that when he became involved in neighborhood meetings regarding this park he was led to believe that the trail would be a small winding trail that would lead to the playground. When the bulldozers came, however they leveled the west side of the lake and a great deal of damage was done to the wooded area. He expressed his disappointment with the Park Commission because of the great loss to trees that has occurred. He is also concerned regarding the fill that has been dumped on the site stating that he feels it is bad fill and damaging to his property. Mr. Tumini stated that he would agree to a trail winding down the west side of the lake to the play area but did not want a hard court surface. He also expressed his concern for the fill that was deposited on the site suggesting that it is creating a problem for the trees that remain. Eileen Gorrell, 1313 Carlson Lake Lane stated she wanted Carlson Lake restored to a passive park as directed by the City Council. She asked if any plans were available for people to view this evening wanted to know what action the Commission would be taking this evening to work toward that end. She expressed her frustration over the timing of this issue stating that work needs to begin quickly to prevent erosion and establish turf. George Kubik stated that the Commission first needed to hear what the residents have to say regarding this park. Mr. Weaver expressed his frustration at the timing of this issue indicating the need to begin reforestation and turf establishment immediately. He also felt there would be alternatives available for residents to respond to tonight. Ken Vraa stated that staff did not have new grading plans but there ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 3 were two things they had looked at. One was to re-shoot everything and the other was to blend the grade so it would be workable as well. The blending option would not be as precise as grading but it could be workable in establishing turf this fall as well as preparing for reforestation. George Kubik stated that the Commission has not come up with a revised plan because they would need to hear residents concerns and make a decision based on those concerns. Mr. Rex Hem, 4351 Dunrovin stated that he was attracted to this area because of it's natural beauty. He feeds birds and has seen many wild animals through this area. He would like to see the reforestation to include nut bearing shrubs to keep the animals in the area. He feels it's necessary to preserve as much of the natural area as is possible. Sylvia Haroldson, 1356 Easter Lane stated that they moved into the area 12 years ago assuming there would be a park developed with playground equipment. She agreed that preserving the natural state of the park would be beneficial but only to the lake front areas. The kids in the area do not have a playground and felt the Commission needed to understand the importance of serving the whole community not just a specific group. Mr. Tierney, 1217 Carlson Lake Lane suggested that the Commission address two separate issues. One would be the tree issue in which no one would argue that there is a need to preserve this element. He suggested that trees should be replaced or some plan be implemented for reforestation. Second, the park is in such an undeveloped state that no one would want to use it the way it is. He suggested that there must be some way to provide a play area and yet protect the privacy to adjacent residents. Another concern he expressed was the lack of access to the park feeling that there should be more access to public land. Paul Savre, 1273 Carlson Lake Lane noted in 14 years he has seen the hard court surface used only once indicating there is not a need for this use. Regarding the playground equipment planned for the south side of Carlson Lake, Mr. Savre stated that the City has fencing code requirements around pools to protect children from getting hurt and was concerned that playground equipment near the water would pose a potential problem. The issue of a bituminous trail was also a concern to Mr. Savre as he stated that bike racing is beginning to occur because of the wide open space left from the tree removal for the trail. Mr. Savre commented that this type of destruction was not anticipated when planning for the access to the park. He stated that there should be access to a play area but no place for kids to build ramps or use skateboards, etc. Mr. Savre continued that the children like the play element of the woods the best and that this was a unique opportunity for them. He suggested leveling out the bottom or southern portion of the park for an open play area and allow access to this area via wood chip trail. Mr. Savre then asked for a show of hands from the audience as to how many actually wanted a playground area. Mr. Kubik asked that this not become a voting mechanism since this meeting was designed to obtain information from the neighbors to help the Commission decide how to best facilitate the needs of the neighborhood. Mary Quiring, 1355 E. Balsam stated she runs through the area regularly and always sees children either playing near the lake or floating on the lake. She continued that whether or not there is playground equipment in this park the children are, and do play in and near the water. She questioned if it was safer to provide a neighborhood playground facility near water or to have children cross Pilot Knob, Diffley or Lexington Avenue to get to a park that has playground facilities. Bob Hafvenstein, 4353 Svensk Lane commented that he disagreed with an earlier comment regarding children playing near the lake and floating on it by saying he has never seen 15 children at the lake or floating on the lake. He stated that he was told there would be an "S" shaped trail on the west side of Carlson Lake but they got a large swath of trees removed which was not what they thought they would get. He expressed his concern for the noise transmission if a playground structure were to be installed. He ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 4 continued that the development of the park should not occur simply because there was money to do the work but rather the money should be used to embellish the natural state of the park area by reforestation, resodding and landscaping. Mr. Hafvenstein stated that the children love using the treed area as their park. Now they will have a wide trail where fast bikes will be going down a large hill to a hard surface play area and will potentially be very dangerous. He stated that because the land was dedicated as park doesn't mean it needs to be developed and that children will play in the streets no matter what facilities are provided. Mr. Hafvenstein continued that the flat play area for passive play on the south side of the lake be sodded not seeded so that the children can have an open area to play safely. Arnold Carlson, 1255 Wilderness Run Drive asked if automobiles were allowed to drive on trails. Mr. Vraa explained that the City Code prohibits vehicular use on trails. Mr. Carlson continued by stating that he was very much opposed to the wide trail and the corridor that had been established to provide for it. Steve Kurtovich, 1361 E. Balsam St. stated that no one was in favor of the large tree loss but suggested that some compromises could be made to preserve the passive element with the development of the park. He stated that a basketball court may not be appropriate but playground equipment will certainly be used by children. Mr. Kurtovich stated that there certainly is enough room for a compromise and consideration should be given to the fact that the west side of Carlson Lake, even though it's very beautiful, is not a national forest. Mr. Kubik asked the audience to be tolerant of different opinions and hoped that if individuals did not agree with an opinion that they would respect the right of the individual expressing them. Bob Sandeen, 1304 E. Balsam Trail identified himself as the park representative for Carlson Lake Park as well as a volunteer for the water quality monitoring program. His concern was regarding the fill placed on the north side of Carlson Lake and the erosion problem that has been caused from the placement of this fill and the removal of trees. He proposed that as much of the fill as possible be removed on the west side and that the site be restored to it's natural landscape to retain the integrity of the park. He further agreed that the park should be passive and not developed. Mr. Sandeen commended the Park Department for their overall parks development but commented that some locations just are not appropriate for development. He stated that the west side of the lake was great the way it was but now most all the trees have been destroyed. Mr. Sandeen suggested that during the reforestation of the site that staff could introduce more appropriate plantings to make this an even better area for the neighborhood. Mr. Sandeen's recollection was that during some of the first discussions regarding this park a picnic area was discussed on the south side of the lake in the open play area making this a quiet, passive area. He does not want a basketball court since it would not be used very much. He stated that most homes have a basketball hoop in their driveway eliminating the need for this facility in a park. He further suggested that if a trail is added that it be wood chip or soft surface so as to discourage bikes, skateboards, etc. on the trail. Resident, 1329 Carlson Lake Lane (formerly 1255 Easter Lane) stated she has lived on Carlson Lake Lane for two years. She commented that she was sorry that everyone present tonight wasn't at the previous neighborhood meetings because her impression was that no one ever wanted to keep a hard court surface at this park nor did they want any kind of trail. Elden Johnson, 1299 Carlson Lake Lane stated that he had heard a lot of good ideas and some very valid concerns from both sides of this issue. He supported the philosophy of keeping the parks green and not having a large amount of blacktop in them and also understood the concern for the safety of children near the water. He recalled that previous meetings indicated the need for good turf for picnics and play area for children which he would still like to see along with an area for people to fish. He did encourage a cooperative effort in the development of the park. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 5 Virginia Snyder, 1321 Carlson Lake Lane stated that she has several children and grandchildren and she has provided backyard swing sets and play equipment for them so they could play in her yard. She suggested that this would be a better alternative rather than develop a park and provide play equipment for a relatively small number of children that would use the facilities. Steve Schlagel, 1280 E. Balsam Trail stated that he liked the theme "wilderness run" rather than "asphalt run". He expressed his concern for the safety of children around the lake because the lake is 30 feet deep in some areas. Unidentified resident noted that the group, as a whole, was concerned about preserving the wilderness and that both sides would not agree on a solution. His input was that he did not want asphalt, rather a more desireable wood chip trail. Jim Tilsen, 1235 East Balsam Trail stated that he had attended some of the meetings and remembered that a basketball court was opposed at that time and was surprised to hear that it was in the approved park development plan. He continued that several residents on the east side were looking forward to a dock which had been proposed in earlier meetings and hoped that that item would also be included. He did not want to see the fishing dock dropped from the plan. Carol Ellison, 1308 Carlson Lake Lane stated that she signed the petition to continue the development of Carlson Lake Park for several reasons. She did want access to the lake, however the trail as it exists, or is planned, now is very difficult to get up and down on. She supports a fishing dock running parallel to the shore and wants the basketball hoop removed because it is difficult for people to play basketball in the proposed playground area location. She also asked that the basketball pole be removed because it is dangerous when children are sledding in this area in the winter. Lois Porter, 4251 N.Svensk stated that she had lived in the area for the last 15 years. She stated that since that time her children have grown up waiting for this park to be developed. She continued that children have not had access to this park and that it should be provided. As far as safety is concerned, she pointed out that Thomas Lake Elementary School is very near Thomas Lake and it has not necessarily been a dangerous situation. Children's play needs to be monitored when they are near water but it does not mean that they should not be near it. She also stated that the south end of Eagan has enough passive parks and this park should be developed as it was intended. Vic Anderson, 1316 Balsam Trail noted that he has lived north of the park for the last 15 years. He stated he built adjacent to the parkland expecting that it would stay the same. He commented that it was imperative that the City move quickly to address erosion control and replacement tree planting. He continued that he was disappointed that there was not a plan for them to review and vote on tonight. He felt there wasn't time for this issue to keep bouncing back and forth between Commission and Council before anything got resolved. He felt the Commission should make a decision on what should be done and get the work started. He continued that the damage has been done and he doesn't think anyone envisioned it would be the way it is, however now quick measures need to be taken to protect the balance of the site. Gloria Czycalla, 1307 Carlson Lake Lane stated that she lives right behind the park and several people who had seen the area before the trail corridor was placed commented on what a beautiful site this was. They are now shocked to see the destruction that occurred on the site. She remembered one comment at an earlier meeting which stated that the trail was going in to save the trees. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 6 Don Shearon of 1296 E. Balsam Trail stated that he travels a lot to parks throughout the state and national parks and said that retaining walls are usually planned for an area that has to deal with a trail on a steep slope. He suggested that the trail planned should have incorporated guard rails and retaining walls and the park as a whole should go back to a natural park. Doug Czycalla, 1307 Carlson Lake Lane expressed his frustration with the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission that a group of people would allow this kind of destruction to occur in a park. He continued that he resented the implications from some of the residents that the lake belongs to lake front owners. Mr. Czycalla stated that he lives next to the access and has never given anyone a hard time when they used this area to access the lake. He suggested that if the park were developed and playground equipment installed a lot of children would be attracted to this area and he would not be a babysitter for children who are playing in this area that could be potentially dangerous for them. Stan Smebakken, 1281 Carlson Lake Lane stated that the Parks Commission should be complimented for their fine park system throughout the city. He felt, however that the Commission had misread what the citizens had requested regarding this park. He stated that at the last City Council meeting this issue was remanded back to the Commission with the direction that the park be developed in a passive manner. He did not understand what the Commission's role is at this time since the direction for development had come from the Council. George Kubik commented that he would address this issue after all input was received from residents. Randy Van Burkleo, 1270 Carlson Lake Lane commented that a lot of good information and thoughts have been shared tonight and the consensus seems to be that the trail corridor should be smaller and the area surrounding it should be reforested. He suggested that the Commission talk to the people living around Fish Lake where they now surround a passive park. He thanked the Commission for their time and attention to this issue. Rex Hem, 4351 Dunrovin commented on the diversity of nature that was provided by the forested area on the west side of Carlson Lake which has been the source of pleasure to both children and adults alike. He continued that a park does not need to be a developed park in order to provide a park environment for the public. Mr. Hern stated he has playground equipment in his back yard to provide this type of play element for his children and wanted to see the forested area remain to provide a different play element for the public. Barbara Andrew, 4227 N. Carlson Lake Lane indicated she has lived in the neighborhood for 14 years. She stated she is not against taking down the trees because now people that do not live directly on the lake can see the lake. She is concerned, however about children playing in the street and the water run- off that is occurring on the west side of Carlson Lake. She further stated that she supported a trail and access to the playground equipment on the south side of the park. Neil Raisanen, 1276 East Balsam Trail stated that he wanted to make his position very clear. He said no one owns the lake and he does not oppose access to the lake. He feels, however that asphalt, swing sets and a basketball court do not belong at Carlson Lake. He continued that if there was someone who felt they could not afford a swing set for their own back yard he would spearhead a fund so that they could be purchased thereby eliminating the need for playground equipment at the park. Paul Savre, 1273 Carlson Lake Lane commented that if access is provided to the park and the park is developed there would be no parking for people who wanted to use it. He continued that this neighborhood is not appropriate for street parking for users of a park. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 7 Eldon Johnson, 1299 Carlson Lake Lane commented that he had initially collected $200 from the neighborhood to install the basketball court in the first place many years age. He stated that the basketball court could be removed as far as those who had contributed money were concerned. Dennis Tierney, 1217 Carlson Lake Lane stated that there appeared to be conflicts regarding the access to this park. He noted that some people want to access the park but cannot at this time. He continued that it didn't appear that there would be a great deal of use of the park from people outside the area therefore, parking would not appear to be a problem. Unidentified resident commenting on the lack of access to the lake noted that in years past access has not been a problem for those who wanted to get a keg of beer down to the lake and were successful. There was concern expressed that this kind of behavior did not want to be encouraged. Marlys Smebakken, 1281 Carlson Lake Lane reiterated the concern for the safety of children and asked that the park be returned to its natural state. Bob Hafvenstein commented that he thinks someone made a mistake and they should be man enough to admit to that mistake and make amends by returning the park to its original state. Arnold Carlson, 1255 Wilderness Run Road commented that there had been a park in this location thirty years ago where in the summer water skiers from all over the area would participate in activities and even with all that activity the park was passive. Now, he commented, it was just a mess. George Kubik thanked everyone for their comments, concerns and suggestions. He continued that the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission is not infallible and this is an issue where there is no clear cut right and wrong. The Commission represents a strong emphasis on protecting the environment which has been demonstrated by the many innovative programs that have been developed over the years. The function of the Commission is to listen to the concerns expressed by the public when a park is to be developed and best try to meet the needs that have been expressed along with keeping the integrity of the Master Park Plan for the City of Eagan. He did agree that the urgency of the situation required a quick and concise decision. He also stated that the Commission has heard requests for an active park, passive park and a middle of the road park. The Commission has spent a great deal of time and attention on trying to balance the quality of Carlson Lake Park while trying to be a good neighbor and listen to concerns residents have. George stated that the tree removal has occurred, the trail corridor has been established and at this point the Commission needs to see what positive steps can be taken to resolve the issue. Shawn Hunter stated that there are no bigger advocates for trees than the Parks and Recreation Commission. He felt that the initial intent was to have the trail be a meandering trail through the wooded area along the west side of Carlson Lake and it was never intended to be a large swath cut through the west side of the park. Mr. Hunter stated that there appear to be two separate issues for the Commission to consider; 1) The removal of the trees and 2) The development of the balance of the park in a "passive" state. Shawn suggested that those that signed the initial petition were disappointed with the tree removal but did not necessarily agree with the neighborhood objectives that Mr. Raisanen presented today. The petition presented to the City Council only addressed the issue of the removal of trees, not the development of the park. For clarification Steve Sullivan shared the Master Park Plan for Carlson Lake Park with the Commission and audience. The plan showed the proposed primary access into the park, the development that was proposed along with the trail along the west side of the lake. Shawn Hunter remembered the Commission discussing placing a playground on the west side of the park. Steve Sullivan commented that it had been discussed, however it was felt that the slope was too steep to place a structure at this location and it would require losing more trees. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 8 Jack Johnson stated that he walked the area today and was shocked at the terrible destruction that had taken play and asked how this could have happened. He identified three separate issues that he felt should be addressed. First, he stated that it was a travesty that the tree removal had occurred and wanted to see the trees replaced but noted that there needs to be access to the park The access could be gained by using the trail corridor established by the tree removal. Another issue is that of a playground on the south side of the lake. Mr. Johnson did not feel it was appropriate to place a basketball court in this park stating that it just didn't fit the area and it appeared that there wasn't a use for it. Finally, the issue of the playground needs to be addressed. Jack commented that as long as there are children and water children will be attracted to each other. He cited Fish Lake and O'Leary Parks as locations that have play areas near water and they both function very successfully. Jack continued that a playground area is needed but it should be relative small; perhaps similar to Fish Lake and constructed of wood rather than metal to be more compatible with the park. Jack stated that this is a beautiful area that should be preserved. It will never be the same as it was before but wanted to see it restored as much as possible as well as provide an opportunity to create a new park experience for the neighborhood. Mr. Johnson also commented on the statement regarding noise transmission by saying that the purpose of a park is to attract children and once access to the park is approved there most likely will be an increase in the noise level. Shawn Hunter agreed with Mr. Johnson's comments. He continued that what needs to occur immediately is erosion control. Following that, reforestation on the west side of the lake should begin with the replanning of the park to include playground equipment but exclude a hard court to commence as well. George Kubik agreed that the erosion issue should be addressed immediately stating that there is a very tight time limit because this work needs to be done quickly. George reminded those in attendance that the decision to develop the park was a decision made by the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission and was approved by the City Council. The decision was not made by Parks and Recreation staff. George suggested the Commission meet again within a week to walk the site and decide what steps need to be taken to resolve these issues. George moved to set up a special meeting to walk the site, work on some options for a park plan and make recommendations to the City Council with the understanding that reforestation would be a high priority. The motion was not seconded. John Griggs asked if a meeting was scheduled within two weeks would that be sufficient time for staff to prepare 2 or 3 plans for public input with an understanding that the erosion issue be addressed immediately. Jack Johnson stated that people have waited long enough on this issue and saw no point in prolonging a decision. Ted Billy asked what the plans would be to address the erosion problem this fall. Steve Sullivan stated that they wanted to get topsoil and turf grass on the site before September 15. George Kubik reiterated that it was important for the Commission to walk the site before they make specific recommendations. George Kubik was concerned about the recommendation for reforestation without knowing where the trail would be located. John Griggs stated that it is clear where the trail line will be considering the corridor is already established; the only clarification would be the width of the trail, whether there would be guard rails or retaining walls. Shawn Hunter commented that it should be feasible to plant trees and establish turf on the outer edge of the trail corridor. Ken Vraa stated that that would be a feasible option, however the width of the trail would need to be determined before any work can continue. Mr. Vraa also suggested that if the Commission requests a soft surface trail a turf trail would be more appropriate than a wood chip trail. Ken continued that the trail was at subgrade ready for aggregate base and what ever other cover the Commission directs. Ken stated that the department is hopeful that it can proceed very quickly with topsoil, turf establishment and erosion control and the size of the trail would be helpful in proceeding with that work. George Kubik asked if a 4 foot wide trail which was suggested by Jack Johnson was possible. Ken Vraa stated he would be more comfortable with a 5 foot width and Steve Sullivan commented that if it is a turf trail it would need to be mowed and the mower is 6 feet wide. Ken Vraa ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 9 continued that a turf trail would be more stable than aglime or wood chip but it would be worn down by traffic. This type of trail would require additional maintenance, however there would be less bicycle/skateboard traffic and more walkers. Ted Billy commented that this type of trail would not be handicapped accessible. John VonDeLinde also added that there would be a need to provide access for vehicles to maintain the turf trail. George Kubik commented that the consensus of the Commission appears to be the establishment of a turf trail that is 6 feet wide. The Commission members responded affirmatively. Mr. Kubik then indicated that it appeared that the residents preferred to keep the orientation of the trail as natural as possible, to which the audience responded affirmatively. After further discussion Shawn Hunter moved and Jack Johnson seconded that the Commission make the following recommendations regarding the development of Carlson Lake Park: 1. Provide for erosion control and establish turf immediately. 2. Begin the reforestation of the trail corridor as soon as possible with the idea that the trail be reduced to a 6 foot width and be a turf trail. 3. Staff redesign the park to include playground equipment on the south side of Carlson Lake but with no hard court surface. All Commission members voted in favor of this action and the motion was passed. Ken Vraa stated that he would meet with staff, residents and the City Forester to develop a landscape plan for this park. He continued that the priority would be to get the grading completed, cut the trail to a 6 foot width, topsoil and seed the area and provide for erosion control. Robert Sandeen again expressed his concern for the excessive fill that has been placed on site and he feels it should be removed. He was concluding that based on the Commission's recommendation work would proceed without removing the fill. Bob Hafvenstein explained that the concern was for the amount of fill on the northwest side of the lake; that it was excessive for the use it was intended and was a potential threat to the live trees adjacent to it. He stated that the fill that was brought in was unnecessary especially now that the pathway is smaller. George Kubik stated that this was a question could not be answered tonight but it would be addressed when the Commission reviewed the site. John Velo, 4295 North Carlson Lake Lane stated that the fill that was brought in resulted in an excessive steep slope and suggested that perhaps steps could be installed so the trail would not be quite as steep. He continued that the fill that was placed is affecting oak trees adjacent to the trail and is threatening their survival. George Kubik asked if with the reduced size of the trail could some of the fill be removed. Steve Sullivan stated that downsizing the trail may very well impact the amount of fill that is to remain on site but that will need to be addressed when a revised grading plan is completed. Greg Anderson stated that there are three 50 foot oak trees on his property that are affected by this fill and he is concerned they are at risk. He stated that if the trees die because of the fill being placed so close to them he will come back to the City for compensation. George Kubik assured Mr. Anderson that every effort will be made to minimize the impact to his trees and any others near the area. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 10 Dick Carroll noted that the issue of the fishing dock had not been addressed. George Kubik commented that what he heard was support for a fishing dock and the City attempts to provide fishing opportunities whenever there is an opportunity. Ken Vraa commented that a dock would be more parallel to the shoreline rather than lineal like the dock at Fish Lake. John VonDeLinde noted that the DNR has periodically stocked Carlson Lake in the past and they have identified this water body as a children's fishing pond. Another consideration is that Carlson Lake is shown as a high priority in the Water Quality Plan that was adopted this summer so perhaps some enhancements could be made to the lake in the future such as aeration, future stocking, etc. depending upon the funding that is available. Neil Raisanen stated that he wanted to make it very clear that he was not if favor of a fishing dock and was not in favor of aerating the lake. He continued that there was not a consensus for a dock and he did not want to see a facility like this placed at Carlson Lake that would draw in outsiders. He said if one was to be installed next to Balsam on the east side of the lake, parallel to the lake that may not be too obtrusive. George Kubik stressed that it is the intent of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission to attempt to serve the needs of the entire community by developing parks that can offer opportunities for as many residents as possible. Mr. Kubik asked when it would be convenient to walk the Carlson Lake Park site and address the issues that remain. Ken Vraa stated that staff would try to prepare a graphic showing the grades however there would not be a planting plan available as yet. After further discussion a meeting was set for Monday, September 24 at 6:00 P.M. to walk the Carlson Lake Park site and then reconvene at the municipal center to discuss the continued development. Eileen Gorrell, 1313 Carlson Lake Lane expressed her concern for discussing the completion of the south end of the park. She stated that turf establishment needs to be addressed immediately and the grading should be completed before the ground freezes and no further work could be completed this year. Ken Vraa clarified that the grading and dormant seeding would occur this fall so that it would have an opportunity to establish. George Kubik thanked all those present for attending and for providing their input and concerns regarding Carlson Lake Park. SUMMER PROGRAM UPDATE Dorothy reminded the Commission that each year at this time recreation staff reviews with the Commission the activities of the previous season and draws their attention to any issues that may require policy change. Dorothy noted that both Paula Nowariak and Jon Oyanagi were present to share the summer's activities. Paula began by stating that this summer's staff was the best she has ever worked with. They were very enthusiastic and pleasurable to work with as well as providing a positive summer experience to the hundreds of children that participated in summer programs. Paula explained that one change that occurred was handling registration for Summer in the Park at the municipal center rather than at the park. This required a great deal of work up-front but made it much easier for staff to deal with in the parks as well as provide the department with accurate information on the participants. Paula stated that the total number of participants was over 800 this summer with Northview, Rahn and Ridge Cliff participation increasing dramatically. Decreases were noted at both Pilot Knob and Lakeside which will need to be reviewed before next summer. The new Summer in the Park program for 5-6 year olds was very successful with a total of 93 registrants and an average of 35-40 children each day at Goat Hill Park. She will be reviewing another site for 1991. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 11 Eaganettes grew from 94 participants in 1989 to 143 this year. This group participated in the 4th of July Parade and had a year end recital. The Tiny Tots program had slightly reduced numbers for the summer session and there were a number of requests for financial assistance this summer as well. Paula has also received several calls already regarding financial assistance for the fall programs. Jon Oyanagi stated that this summer's softball team numbers raised to 197, up from 174 in 1989. There were three new fields added this year which helped to accommodate the number of teams that increased this year. The biggest drawback this year was the amount of rain that delayed games requiring them to be rescheduled to the last two weeks of the season. This year also the Unisys fields were used for the first time in many years for overflow games. The Cake Walk, Skateboard Contest and Day Camp at Camp Sacajawa all were activities that needed to be cancelled because of too few participants. George Kubik commented that he was not disappointed that this occurs because many of these activities are experiments and need to be tried. Jon continued that the Star Gazing activity generated a great deal of interest but the weather did not cooperate. Both the Biking Club and Walking Club have been very successful and Jon is hopeful that they groups will become independent and plan activities on their own shortly. Another successful event were Moonlight Movies which were shown at Trapp Farm Park. This is an activity that should continue as the interest increases. George commented that he had heard several very positive comments about the movies. Jon continued that Camp Creative still continued to be a very successful program with a lot of interest shown in it. Mr. Kubik thanked the Recreation Staff for their fine work and complimented them on the experimental programs they continue to offer to the public. PARKS DEVELOPMENT Steve Sullivan explained that Pages 33 and 34 of the packet contained an outline of pending and completed park development activities. To recap, Steve explained that final payment would be requested for Contract 89-23 on Sept. 18. Coventry Pass Park is underway, Woodhaven parking lot is nearing completion and Bur Oaks Park South is being worked on, all a part of Contract 90-1. Contract 90-2 includes the building construction at Bridle Ridge, Northview aNd Ohmann Parks. The work is progressing very nicely at all sites. Ken Vraa suggested that the Commission should visit Coventry Pass Park now that work has begun to see the drastic change in the personality of the park from when they first visited it. HAPPENINGS George Kubik commented on the near completion of the EAA storage facility at Northview Park. He stated that he is very happy to see the quality of work that is provided by Parks Staff. George also thanked the anonymous donor of $150 which was used to allow five children from the Robert B. Lewis home to participate in the Sports and Games Camp this past summer. Dorothy Peterson indicated she had received a thank-you letter from the Robert B. Lewis house for the respite this provided for the children' parent. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 MEETING PAGE 12 Other points addressed by the Commission included a joint project McDonalds is pursuing with the senior population in Eagan, a league scheduling program that LOGIS is looking at to facilitate this need for several of the cities that use LOGIS, the success of the tennis instruction program this year. Dorothy credited the excellent tennis teaching staff along with some scheduling changes for the success. Dorothy also commented that the nets have just been installed at the new sand volleyball courts at Rahn Athletic and calls have already been taken to reserve playing time. EARLY CHILDHOOD PROGRAM - S.D. 197 Dorothy reminded the Commission that their direction was to work out a three-month trial agreement with the school district to allow the use of Sky Hill shelter building for an early childhood program. The agreement has been worked out and the classes will begin on Wednesday, September 12 and continue through November 21. The program will not be in the building in the winter however they have the option to renew in the spring. The logistics have been worked out regarding the opening/closing of the building, maintenance, fees, etc. George Kubik commented that the Commission was moving in a positive direction in being able to facilitate this need with such a cooperative effort. PARK CENTER ADDITION Steve Sullivan noted that this was an informational item for the Commission. The site is located at the intersection of Cliff and Rahn Cliff Road directly adjacent to Rahn Park. It appears that Federal Land wants to do the storm sewer system installation this fall and Steve wanted to keep the Commission updated on the impact to Rahn Park. One of the parcels on this site is being considered for HRA housing. When the Commission reviewed this parcel previously there was concern expressed for the oak trees that buffer this parcel from Rahn Park and Rahn School. Steve showed the area that would be disrupted and impacted by the installation of the storm sewer. There is a 10 inch oak tree and other grown trees that would be within the construction limits as well as six oak trees, approximately 6 inches in diameter that lie on the outside of the construction line that may be in question. Mr. Kubik asked if it was possible to "sensitize" the dozer operator so that the least number of trees are removed. Steve assured the Commission that he would be monitoring this development. WATER RESOURCES COORDINATOR IN IERVIEWS Ken Vraa stated that the interviews had been completed for the Water Resources Coordinator and the position has been offered to one of the applicants and staff is awaiting the applicant's decision. YOUTH PROGRAM UPDATE Dorothy Peterson commented that there is a staggering growth in the youth programs this fall resulting in increased maintenance concerns and the ability to provide field space for the multiple uses requested. Dorothy continued that there are approximately 500 children playing soccer in Eagan this fall, EAA football has surfaced again with 80+ children participating in the 5th and 6th grade level only, middle school and high school athletes are using many of the City's facilities and Jon Oyanagi's adult teams are also using the City's facilities. COMMISSION PICNIC Ken Vraa reminded the Commission members of the upcoming picnic on Friday, September 14th. ADVISORY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1990 PAGE 13 George Kubik wanted to remind the viewing audience of the City's celebrations coming up September 8th. The police department will be celebrating their 25th anniversary with an open house and tours of the facilities. John Griggs added that the Grand re-opening of the Town Hall will occur on the same day, September 8, with festivities to begin at 12:20 PM. John continued that after the dedication of the building, tours would be available and entertainment would be provided during the afternoon by three barbershop quartets. The public is invited to all the activities on that day. With no further business to conduct, Dick Carroll moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to adjourn. The meeting was adjourned at 11:00 P.M. SECRETARY DATE