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03/07/1991 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION EAGAN, MINNESOTA MARCH 7, 1991 A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks and Recreation Commission was called to order at 7:00 P.M. on Thursday, March 7, 1991 with the following Commission Members present: George Kubik, John Griggs, Shawn Hunter, Ted Billy, Michael Vogel, Lee Markell, Deborah Johnson and Dick Carroll. Commission Member Jack Johnson was not present. Staff present included Ken Vraa, Director of Parks and Recreation; Stephen Sullivan, Landscape Architect/Parks Planner; Dorothy Peterson, Superintendent of Recreation; John VonDeLinde, Parks Superintendent; Rich Brasch, Water Quality Coordinator, Mike Ridley, Project Planner; John Wingard, Development/Design Engineer and Cherryl Mesko, Secretary. AGENDA Ken Vraa asked 'Joint Community Commission Meeting' be added to the agenda. John Griggs moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as amended. MINUTES Page 2, Paragraph 4, Sentence 3 should read, 'John Griggs asked if Eagan has a historical society.' Page 5, last paragraph, Sentence 2 should be followed by, 'The Conxnunfty Event Conxnittee should continue as an Ad-Hoc committee rather than a standing committee.' Ted Billy moved, Michael Vogel seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes as amended. CONSENT AGENDA Shawn Hunter moved, Ted Billy seconded with all members voting in favor to recommend the following to the City Council: 1. WEST PUBLISHING 5TH ADDITION - WEST PUBLJSHING CO. This plat has previously fulfilled its parks dedication obligation according to the Gopher Eagan Planned Development. The plat would be subject to a cash trails dedication. 2. WILLBROOK ADDITION - JIM WIWAMS & TOM WESTBROOK. This plat will be subject to a cash parks dedication and a cash trails dedication. BURR VIEW POND ADDITION Mike Ridley, Project Planner explained that a preliminary plat known as Crystal Ponds Addition was previously approved for this site on 6/7/88. The original proposal had a 15 building configuration with a total of 137 units. The current Burrview Pond Addition preliminary plat configuration shows a total of 132 units with a building coverage of 8.1 % and a paved area coverage of 10.7%. The net density is 11.66 units per acre which falls within the R-4 density requirement of this site. Mike continued that this application had been continued from the October 23,1990 meeting because of concerns raised regarding the placement of the building on site and the visual ramifications to nearby single family homes. Since that time the applicant has redesigned the layout so the impact on adjacent property is reduced. It is anticipated that this proposal will be brought before the Advisory Planning Commission before it proceeds to the City Council. Stephen Sullivan explained that the four items for the Commission to review included 1) What the parks dedication requirement would be; 2) What the trails dedication requirement would be; 3) Should parks dedication credit be provided for the proposed recreation facilities within this development; and 4) Does the development meet the recreation open space requirement. Steve reminded the Commission ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES OF MARCH 7, 1991 MEETING PAGE 2 that they had previously reviewed this proposal and had made the following recommendations: 1) The development be subject to a cash parks dedication; 2) The development be subject to a cash trails dedication; 3) the development layout be revised to include 22,200 square feet of recreation area; 4) The development plan be revised to include a tot lot play area and the Commission would consider parks dedication credit for a tot lot improvement. Steve continued that staff estimated the complex could support up to 100 children however they would be isolated from the nearby Bur Oaks Park and would be reliant on on-site recreation facilities. The developer is proposing to include a tot lot play area, basketball court, sand volleyball court, bituminous loop trail with 4 fitness stations and benches as part of their recreation facilities. Staff calculated the value of the developers proposed recreation facilities to be approximately $16,550. Based on the 1991 parks dedication fees the total cash parks dedication would be $73,788.00. The range of credit the Commission may want to consider ranges from zero to $16,550. Steve reminded the Commission that the evaluation should be based on the perceived benefit to the park system, park service area and park user group and whether the facility serves a parks system need or reduces the demand on other public recreation facilities. George Kubik added that traditionally the Commission did not provide for full dollar credit for recreation facilities within a development. John Griggs asked If all the parking would be outside the building and Mike Ridley responded that there would be 132 underground parking spaces with an additional 137 spaces provided outside the building. Shawn Hunter asked if the run-off went directly into the park pond. Rich Brasch responded that the pond was sized to accommodate the run-off for this property. He continued that if the developer provides an easement to the pond it will accommodate the maintenance that will be required. John Wingard added that this easement was a condition of the developer's agreement. Shawn Hunter asked if there was a preliminary location for the tot lot. Steve Sullivan responded that the placement is planned on the east side of the site central to the building. John Griggs stated that he would prefer, if a credit is given, that it be a percentage rather than a dollar amount since the developer should be required to provide these types of amenities as a standard part of the development. George Kubik explained that in general the Commission has taken the position that it would provide a credit of up to 50% of the tot lot. Mike Vogel asked what was typically in a tot lot to which Steve responded it typically included elements such as a slide, climbing apparatus and swings. Mike Vogel asked how far the proposed tot lot is from the pond. Mike Ridley responded that the tot lot will be fenced since there are significant slopes to the pond. John Bell representing Kludt, Inc. addressed the Commission stating that they agree completely with staffs written report and they wished to withdraw their request for recreation facility credits. He continued that they would rather not be committed to specific recreation facilities since there has been some concern expressed by neighbors regarding some of the proposed amenities. They also anticipate there will be a trail but they would prefer not building one at this time. After further discussion, Ted Billy moved to make the following recommendations regarding Burrview Pond Addition: 1. The development be subject to a cash parks dedication. 2. The development be subject to a cash trails dedication. 3. The development not receive parks dedication credit for recreation facilities. 4. The developer submit a tot lot design for staff to review before installation with a minimum cost of the tot lot to be $5,000. 5. The development meets the recreation open space requirement. Shawn Hunter seconded the motion with all members voting in favor. ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES OF MARCH 7, 1991 MEETING PAGE 3 CLIFF LAKE CENTRE 3RD ADDITION Mike Ridley explained that this proposal is for a preliminary plat consisting of 208 rental apartment units on approximately 22.9 acres of previously zoned PD R-4 land. This site is located north of Cliff Lake road and south of Meadowland Park/Highline Trail. The plan proposes a total of 13 buildings consisting of 16 units each. The developer is proposing to dedicate ponding and park areas totaling approximately 5.7 acres for a net site area of 18.92 acres. The net building coverage of this proposal is 14% which is less than City Code allowed. The net density of 10.9 units per acre meet the density allowed in the R-4 zoning district. This proposal was continued from the February Advisory Planning Commission meeting and will appear again in March. Jim Stirton, Vice President of Ventana Development Corporation was present to further describe the proposal and answer specific questions from the Commission. He continued that the project was a 208 unit rental housing complex, 13 buildings with 16 units each with tuck under garages. The intent of this proposal was to tie together the concerns of the neighborhood, ponding, density and Parks and Recreation Commission. Mr. Stirton stated the intention was to have the site and PUD interact with the developed retail and residential area nearby. After the neighborhood meeting the primary concern appeared to be the buffering of the residential neighborhood from the buildings. In dealing with the park dedication issue the development proposed to dedicate Outlots A, B and C, however after staff had reviewed the dedication proposals they determined that Outlot C (Pond AP-24) would not be accepted as a dedicated parcel. Ken Tyler, 4346 Fox Ridge Court noted that he lived north of the proposed development and had attended the neighborhood meeting. He stated the plan looks like a reasonable proposal but expressed concern regarding the water level of Pond A which is south of the Highline Trail corridor and directly south of his property. Rich Brasch explained that originally Ponds A and B were tied together but the primary change that is proposed is to tie the ponds together slightly differently so as to expand the wet volume of all ponds. He continued that the object of routing storm water through Pond A first was to keep water in it more frequently. John Griggs asked why it was necessary to tie Pond A into the storm water system. John Wingard explained that due to the watershed area there has been some consideration given to excavating Pond A to increase it's holding volume. Ken noted that there is a storage issue at hand and the existing ponds have a significant bounce therefor some alternatives are being investigated. John Wingard stated that some of the ponds may change in size, depth and location. Lee Markell asked how the vegetation would be impacted around Pond A. Rich Brasch responded that this pond would be the first pond for water to enter after coming from the freeway, however, he was unfamiliar at this time as to the specific vegetation around that pond and the impact of the run-off. John Wingard stated that there are some trees on the south side of the pond and they will try to save them, however depending on the total run-off into this pond the pond may expand to the open grassy area. Steve Sullivan outlined the issues for the Commission to review. Those included 1) What is the proposals obligation for parks dedication; 2) Should the development receive park dedication credit for on-site recreation facilities; 3) What is the proposals obligation for trails dedication; 4) What is the proposals obligation for compliance with the Water Quality Policy; 5) What are the knpacts of the proposed pond improvements within the Highline Corridor; and 6) Does the proposal meet the open recreation space requirement. Mr. Sullivan continued that Outlot A contained a total acreage of .90 acres with .26 acres designated as steep slopes, .04 acres designated as pond acreage and .60 acres designated as area above H.W.L. and below 12% slopes. Outlot B contained total acreage of 2.20 acres with 1.00 acre designated as steep slopes, .69 acres as pond acreage and .51 acres designated above H.W.L. and below 12% slopes. Outlot C contained total acreage of 3.70 acres with .39 acres designated as steep slopes, 3.20 acres designated as pond acreage and .11 acres designated as area above H.W.L. and below 12% ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES OF MARCH 7,1991 MEETING PAGE 4 slopes. Based on no credit for ponding areas, 100% dedicLtion of areas above the H.W.L. and below 12% slopes along with 20% credit for steep slope area the total parkland dedication would be 2.51 acres; short of the 5.67 acres required according the Planned Development Agreement. The shortfall of 3.16 acres could be fulfilled by using a land to cash equivalent. Steve reviewed the parks dedication policy regarding credit for recreation facilities within a development and shared estimated costs of improvements that are proposed within the development. Estimated costs for 2 swimming pools was $50,000; 1900 lin. ft. of turf trails was $3,800 and 200 lin. ft. of bituminous trail was $1,600. Options were provided regarding various levels of credit for the Commission to consider if they chose to provide credit for recreational facilities. The development is subject to the implementation of trailway in lieu of a cash trails dedication. Staff has also recommended that the developer construct an eight foot wide bituminous trail from cliff Lake Drive to the northern property line along with a 15 foot wide trail easement for pedestrian corridor. The water quality Issue had not been completely analyzed for the Commission to review. It is anticipated that a more comprehensive report will be available at the April 4th meeting. In reference to the impact of the proposed pond improvements within the Highline Corridor, Steve stated that during a 100 year storm Pond AP22 would be at a level to flood the trail. He noted that either the trail should be elevated or the pond elevation be lowered. Steve indicated that the developer is requesting a variance to the 45,800 square feet requirement for open recreation space based on the fact that the site is consumed with predominant areas required for ponding, it would not be economically feasible to remove an apartment building to provide the required space, the developer is providing direct pedestrian access from development to the abutting parkland property and the Highline Corridor and Meadowlands Park provide a diversity of recreation opportunities that could not be accomplished within the square footage requirement. Shawn Hunter expressed concern over the southeast corner being zoned commercial and questioned how people would gain access to Meadowlands Park. He also suggested that consideration be given to requesting, as part of the recreational open space, a grove of trees' located on the west side of Pond AP-23. Further discussion indicated that this site could be developed to a total of 370 units, however the developer has downsized the development to include a total of 208 units. Mr. Stirton indicated that in order to provide this grove of trees as part of the open recreational space would require the elimination of one of the buildings which would be financially prohibitive from a development point of view. George Kubik noted that the Commission has not provided credit for swimming pools In the past since they were not an amenity to the community as a whole even though the provided recreational opportunities within a development. After further discussion, George Kubik moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to recommend the following: 1. The developer receive 3.1 acres credit for Outlot A and B to be dedicated to the City for parks purposes. 2. Proposed Outlot C - Pond AP-24,will not be accepted for parks dedication. 3. Eagan Hills West planned development be required to pay a cash to land dedication for the difference between the 5.67 acres required and the 3.1 acre dedication. 4. The developer construct an 8 foot wide bituminous trail from Cliff Lake Drive to the south property line of the Highline Trail Corridor. 5. The developer shall provide a 15 foot wide trail easement for this pedestrian corridor. ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES OF MARCH 7,1991 MEETING PAGE 5 6. To allow the developer to improve upon Pond A and B and AP-22, subject to the following requirements: a. Either lower the H.W.L. of AP-22 below the Highline Trail or reconstruct the trail above the 100 year frequency elevation. Also, they are asked to revise the bottom contours to the northern cell of Pond AP-22, providing for open water and a shallow area for wildlife. b. To revise the south shoreline of the south cell of Pond AP-22, eliminating the lineal channel. 7. To provide positive recommendation for the variance request to the recreation open space requirement with the modification that the tree stand to the west of AP-23 be considered as recreational open space with the location and size to be worked out with staff. HIGHUNE TRAIL CORRIDOR As background, Steve Sullivan reminded the Commission that they have reviewed this issue on numerous occasions concerning the unauthorized grading within the Highline Trail corridor. Steve indicated that Paul Thomas, representing Tri-Land, has been in contact with the City during this process so that alternatives could be prepared for the Commission to review. Paul Thomas explained that three alternatives have been prepared for the Commission to review and he is looking for a recommendation as to which plan will be most appropriate in rectifying the problem. Because of the potential impact to the park, it was felt that several options should be provided. The first option shows the run-off coming down to a retaining wall near Lot 8 and would continue between the two homes on Park Knoll Drive that are now experiencing a ponding problem. It would be necessary to repair or replace a driveway on one of the lots and address the ponding problem behind the home on Lot 8. Steve Sullivan noted that this ponding problem has been occurring for the last three years. Mr. Thomas continued that this option controls the flow, remedies the situation that exists on Lot 8, however there is concern for the overland flow at Park Knoll Drive. It was also noted that there would need to be corrective measures taken regarding the restoration of the retaining wall discussed in this scenario. Steve Sullivan explained that the impact to the park would be the need to restore turf after the grading and repairs. Option 2 involves using a controlled outlet to carry 4 CFS to the east down the slope and outlet into the pond. In response to a question regarding disturbance of existing trees, Mr. Thomas responded that in this scenario they would attempt to avoid all trees. Steve Sullivan noted that the impact to the park using this scenario would be that the pipe would run through the park and into a 5 foot deep pipe with the disturbed area being approximately 10 feet wide running the length of the pipe installation. Steve continued that the pipe would need to be sized to adequately provide for the storm water flow it will need to handle; the disturbed area will be contained; the plan would require the crossing of the existing bike pate and there would be a need to make sure added water will not impact the vegetation around the existing pond. Option 3 provided for a pond with a controlled outlet into a ditch. Steve Sullivan noted that the impact of this option would be a much larger area that would need to be disturbed resulting in larger visual consequences within the park. Jon Wingard explained that with the development of Lexington Point 5th and the surrounding residential areas the watershed area has increased significantly. After reviewing all three options, Engineering shows a preference to Option 2 because of the low amount of maintenance required. Once the pipe has been installed the City has agreed to take on the responsibility of this pipe as part of the City's storm water system. Option 1 and 3 would be more maintenance intensive, therefore they would not be recommended. ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES OF MARCH 7,1991 MEETING PAGE 6 George Kubik noted that the Parks and Recreation Department tries to be a good neighbor however it has been asked on many occasions to provide for storm water retention on parkland to provide for the development around the park. He continued that this impact to the parks continues to be a serious problem and that he did not care for any of the options that had been presented thus far. His preference would be to provide an option(s) that would have no impact on the Highline Corridor or Trapp Farm Park. John Griggs asked where the catch basin was on Park Knoll Drive. Jon Wingard explained that the water would run down the lot line to Park Knoll Drive and then south on Park Knoll Drive to the nearest catch basin. John then asked why an underground pipe could not go directly Into the storm water system. Lee Markell noted that it would require digging up Park Knoll Drive. Paul Thomas noted that it is possible to tie into the existing storm water system, however, it would not be able to handle the extra run-off because the system was designed for a 5 year storm. John Griggs asked if the pond at Trapp Farm Park was a storm water pond to which Ken Vraa responded affirmatively. Dick Carroll expressed his concern for the occurrence of a 100 year storm and asked what impact this would have on the pond within Trapp Farm Park. John Wingard stated that those calculations had not been completed to date. John Griggs expressed his concern for bring 8 developed acres along with 2 acres of parkland into the existing storm water pond. Mr. Thomas responded that the original storm water plan only provided for a 5 year storm system, therefore, it was his concern that it would not be able to handle a 100 year storm. Mr. Thomas also stated that if the storm water system were being developed now the developer would've had to provide a plan for 5 year run-off as well as the 100 year occurrence but both the developer and the city missed this point in their final review of the storm water plan. George Kubik reiterated the importance of retaining the integrity of this high priority, highly visible park and didn't feel that the options provided address the request for no further impact to the park. After further discussion, George Kubik moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to recommend that erosion control be done as soon as possible (with staff approval), affected area to be seeded and restored as soon as possible (with staff approval); the full impact of Options 1 and 2 to be considered and include mitigating enhancements along with alternatives to be provided that do not affect park property at all. LONG RANGE PLANNING WORKSHOP It was noted that Thursday, April 18, 6:30 P.M. has been designated as a workshop session for long range planning. A reminder notice will be sent to Commission members prior to the meeting. REQUEST FOR GARDEN PLOT; COUNTY RESTITUTION PROGRAM John VonDeLinde explained that Dakota County Court Services Department had approached the City with a request to establish a raised garden bed at the Lexington/Diffley site that would be cultivated, planted and tended by the Summer Youth Restitution participants under the direction of 2 adult superv isors from the Court Services Department. The County would be responsible for all work associated with planting and maintaining the garden including bring water to the site by tanker truck. The site would allow for suitable access and parking and will be in close proximity to the water filling station located at the northwest comer of Lexington/Diffley intersection. George Kubik asked If the County had reviewed the site and were aware of the vandalism potential. John indicated that they were familiar with the possible problems and were willing to work with the City to make this a workable situation. George Kubik moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting In favor to approve the request of the Dakota County Department of Court Services to use a portion of the Lexington/Diffley park site for the purposes of establishing a community 'food shelf' garden during the 1991 growing season. ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES OF MARCH 7, 1991 MEETING PAGE 7 The agreement would further stipulate that there is a one-year restriction and that the City of Eagan would not be responsible for injuries. John Griggs asked that consideration be given to emphasize organic gardening practices. BUILDING CONSTRUCTION UPDATE Stephen Sullivan noted that all three buildings have reached the point of substantial completion and punch lists have been prepared for the buildings. COMMUNITY SURVEY - DRAFT Rich Brash explained that the purpose of the survey provided within the packet was to provide a base line for water quality education success. The plan is to send out 700 surveys in anticipation that 350 will be returned to obtain a high level of confidence in information. The 700 addresses selection will be total random selection. Mike Vogel indicated that 50% return seems to be very optimistic. Rich responded that they are hopeful that there will be enough interest in this issue that the surveys will be returned in a timely fashion. Additionally, a follow-up will be done to those addressed that have not returned a survey in the time frame allocated. It is hoped that the survey will go out around the 1st of April. Shawn Hunter asked why the recycling information was being duplicated suggesting that information currently in existence should be used. John Griggs stated he was pleased to see the City take these issues on at a city level and suggested that perhaps the results could be shared with the county to help with their efforts also. In conclusion, Rich Brash asked Commission members to let him know if there were further questions regarding the survey. PETITION PROCESS FOR LAKE WATER MANAGEMENT Rich Brash reviewed the proposed petition process for lake/pond management assistance. He reviewed each step of the petition process explaining how a resident can begin a request for assistance and the consistent process that will be followed. in each case. John Griggs commented that it was an excellent process but asked what the time line would be since neighborhood groups or Individuals can become disenchanted if the process takes longer than they are prepared for. Rich responded that it was difficult to answer this question but it is hoped that three months would be an anticipated time frame. The time frame will be more clearly defined once a petition has gone through the whole process. It is anticipated that the first issue may come before the Commission in April. Ken Vraa added that it may not be necessary to go through the entire petition process before an issue is resolved. John Griggs noted that there is the possibility of streamlining the process on similar Issues as well. Another concern was the amount of staff time that would be involved in the petition process. George Kubik commented that this was a very fine piece of work and looks forward to seeing the proposed petition process again after Rich has. had an opportunity of Incorporating the Input from this meeting. Mr. Griggs asked that Rich create two separate flow charts; one to reflect new issues and one to address similar issues which have been addressed in earlier petitions so as to identify cost savings. Mr. Kubik asked Rich to bring this petition process back to the Commission for a vote after fine tuning based on the suggested revisions. HAPPENINGS It was noted that Jules Erickson and Bonita Soller would be beginning their internship with the department beginning on March 25th. Jules is a graduate of Sibley High School and Bonita is a graduate of Burnsville High School. Additional items discussed included over 100 coaches participated in the latest NYSCA coaches training, the attendance of the Senior Coffee Club that meets on Tuesdays at the Silver Bell McDonald's continues to grow, the popular '55 Al ve' safe driving sponsored by HARP offered to Eagan Seniors also allows for a 10% discount on auto insurance. Spring recreation program registration will occur on Saturday, March 9 from 10 -12 noon, Rahn Park shelter building upgrades were completed, ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES OF MARCH 7, 1991 MEETING PAGE 8 Alex Lammers, Paul Graham and Don Buecksler recently finished construction of a new portable hockey rink at Lexington. SPECIAL MEETING - BLACKHAWK PARK - MARCH 14. 1991 George Kubik reminded the Commission of a special meeting on Thursday, March 14th to address Blackhawk Park. The meeting is scheduled for 7:00 P.M. in Council Chambers and all members are urged to attend. JOINT COMMUNITY COMMISSION MEETING Ken Vraa noted that five years ago there was a joint meeting of Advisory Parks Commissions/Boards to share views and do some brainstorming. All those that attended felt this was a very beneficial meeting. Lakeville has offered to host another similar meeting and would hope to schedule it for possibly April 15th or 27th. The Commission will be kept abreast of further developments in this meeting schedule. ROUND TABLE George Kubik congratulated Shawn Hunter and his wife on the arrival of their daughter, Rachael Elizabeth. John Griggs commented that he appreciated the agenda being published In the paper. He asked if there was any further information regarding signs at City Hall. John VonDel-inde responded that the standard message board with removable letters, illuminated would cost approximately $50-90/square foot with the base being extra. It is anticipated that the total cost would be approximately $3,000 - 6,000. Another option would be electronic message boards with a cost range of $10,000 - 20,000. These would also be very maintenance intensive. It is felt that the best option would be the standard message board. George Kubik asked that further information be obtained regarding the advantages/disadvantages of these types of signs as well as obtaining information from communities that currently use this vehicle to get information to the public. John VonDeLinde did note that portables are no longer allowed per City Code therefore a permanent structure would be required. John Griggs noted that the Community Event Task Force continues to discuss options for a community event. Regarding the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, it was recommended that John follow up with the orchestra to discuss pricing and options available. He also mentioned that he had tapes available for any Commission member who would like to preview their music. Another meeting will be called to provide updated information. With no further business to conduct, John Griggs moved, Lee Markell seconded with all members voting in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 11:10 P.M. SECR DATE