05/02/1991 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF
THE ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
MAY 2, 1991
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission was
called to order at 7:35 p.m. on Thursday, May 2, 1991 with the following Commission Members present:
Deborah Johnson, Ted Billy, Shawn Hunter, Lee Marken, John Griggs and Dick Carroll. Commission
Members George Kubik, Jack Johnson and Mike Vogel were not present. Staff present included Ken
Vraa, Director of Parks and Recreation; Stephen Sullivan, Landscape Architect/Parks Planner, Dorothy
Peterson, Superintendent of Recreation; John VonDeLinde, Parks Superintendent; Rich Brasch, Water
Quality Coordinator; Jon Oyanagi, Recreation Supervisor; Benita Solder, Intern and Cherryl Mesko,
Secretary.
AGENDA
Ken Vraa asked that 'Highline Trail Grading' be added under Other Business and Reports. Ted
Billy moved, John Griggs seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as amended.
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF APRIL 4, 1991
Page 8, Paragraph 3, Sentence 1 should read, 'John Griggs insured what the bridge
design..... hundred year rain event..' Paragraph 10, last sentence should read, '....shelter to provide
skating options for future generations.'
Page 9, Paragraph 4, Sentence 2 should read, '....asked whether the sooessibity would...'
Paragraph 10, Sentence 1 should read, '.....site a trailer adjacent to the lake.' Sentence 2 should read,
'....should not ignore the lake skating opportunity.'
Page 10, Paragraph 3, should read, '..Griggs noted that the reason he..... He preferred that the
number of parking spaces be at the Commission recommended standard of 210. He....
Page 11, Paragraph 4, Sentence 2 should read, 'The standard fee is $10-12,000, but for Eagan
they were wiling to be in the $6,500 range.' Sentence 4 should read, They prefer a fixed amount and
would..' Paragraph 5, Sentence 4 should read, '...Commission might consider developing an athletic
complex at the Lexington Diffley site before going ahead on Blackhawk Park.'
Ted Billy moved, John Griggs seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes
as amended.
SKIMEW ADDITION - LAHNER-DUNK
Ted Billy moved, Shawn Hunter seconded with all members voting in favor to make the following
recommendations to the City Council regarding Skyview Addition:
A. That the proposal be subject to a cash parks dedication.
B. That the proposal be subject to a cash trails dedication.
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
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PAGE 2
WINTER RECREATION REPORT
Recreation Supervisor Jon Oyanagi recapped the winter recreation programs highlighting some
of the programs such as Decorate Eagan Contest, ice skating lessons, 4-man hockey, broomball, Winter
Weekend and Cabin Fever events. Jon reviewed the attendance at various skating sites as well as the
heavily used Trapp Farm Park tubing hill. The sale of hot chocolate at four of the sites was done as an
experiment which proved to be very successful. $1,160.25 was grossed translating to 4,641 cups of hot
chocolate at 250 a cup. It is anticipated that the added revenue would help offset the cost of carpet
cleaning, additional coffee makers and staff time for set up and cleaning.
Jon continued that the Commission would need to review the attendance reports for each site and
determine what changes, if any will need to occur for the 1991/92 season. it is currently projected that
12/20/91 would be the date for opening winter sites. If the hours of operation remain similar to the past
season the closing dates for 'A' sites would be February 17; 'B' sites would be February 9 and 'C' sites
would be February 2. With an estimate of 5,863 hours required to cover the twelve sites the total
anticipated expenditure for seasonal staff would be more than $32,000.
Some of the options for the Commission to consider included, 1) Maintain the ice but discontinue
shelters at both Pilot Knob and Woodhaven Parks; 2) Change Saturday opening hours to noon rather than
10 a.m.; 3) Close 'A' sites at 9 p.m.; 4) Open sites at noon on 'school's our days rather than 10 am.; 5)
Put lights on timers at Pilot Knob and Woodhaven Parks and 6) Discontinue creating rinks at Cedar Pond
and Country Home Parks.
Shawn Hunter commented that this is just the kind of critical needs analysis that needs to be done
in light of the budget constraints. Shawn stated that he felt issues 2-5 on Page 24 of the packet were
viable options. He continued that prioritizing activities would be helpful; i.e. informal/family activities would
be a high priority with a lesser priority being placed on more formal organizational use of facilities such
as athletic associations.
John Griggs suggested that concessions also be considered asking if it would be feasible to
expand concessions in other shelter buildings. Jon responded that by trying the sale of hot chocolate
at 4 sites the objective wasn't to make money, rather to see what the response would be. Mr. Griggs
asked if the park shelters are conducive to operating concessions from them and Jon responded that it
was difficult for leaders to monitor the activities at the site as well as monitor the distribution of
concessions to people. Mr. Griggs again asked if it would be conceivable to operate expanded
concessions, on a small scale, in the shelters. Ken Vraa responded that the space limitations make it
difficult to provide this type of service since there are many times when the building Is full of people.
Ted Billy commented that it makes sense to increase the price of the hot chocolate to reflect the
costs incurred in cleaning carpet, additional staff needs, etc. The option of vending machines was
discussed and Dorothy Peterson responded that staff has experimented with this option in the past and
it has not been very successful because of the vandalism that occurred. John Griggs asked if a feasibility
report or summary of what other cities are doing could be provided to give the Commission more
information relative to their decision on concession sales.
After further discussion, Shawn Hunter moved John Griggs seconded with all members voting In
favor to recommend the following for the 1991/92 winter season:
1. Adjust the hours as recommended, opening at noon on week-ends and vacation days
and closing at 9 p.m.
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
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PAGE 3
2. Discontinue the shelters at Pilot Knob and Woodhaven Park.
3. Put lights at Pilot Knob and Woodhaven Park on timers.
4. Discontinue creating rinks at Cedar Pond and Country Home Parks.
PETITION PROCESS FOR POND JP-30.1, GREENSBORO ADDITION
Ken Vraa explained that this was the first petition process the Commission would be involved in
regarding water quality issues. He noted that Water Resource Coordinator Rich Branch would provide
the background for this issue and the petition process to date.
Rich Branch explained that staff and petitioners met on January 14, 1991 to identify several factors
that provide information on this issue. The information is relative to Pond JP-30.1 located just to the
northwest of the intersection of Wescott Road and Greensboro Drive in the Greensboro First and Second
Addition subdivisions. Before the wetland now designated as Pond JP-30.1 was Incorporated into the
stormwater sewer system, it received runoff from approximately 15 ares. After connecting the pond to the
system the direct drainage area increased to about 17.4 acres and the indirect drainage area increased
from 0 to 63 acres. Runoff from a 100 year rainfall event will temporarily raise the water surface elevation
of this pond by just over 2 feet above normal if the system is functioning properly. This pond has 2 inlets;
one in the northeast corner that receives drainage from upstream ponds as well as portions of
Greensboro Drive and one on the west shoreline that receives direct drainage only.
Rich continued that the concern of the petitioners is the apparent drop in the water level since
1987. They have identified the probable cause as the installation and operation of a storm sewer along
Wescott Road in 1987. Sediment accumulation in the pond was viewed as an additional factor In
decreasing the pond depth over time resulting in a proliferation of emergent vegetation such as cattails
which have taken over formerly open areas of the pond. The petitioners contend that these developments
have reduced their recreational use of the pond for ice skating and wildlife viewing as well as their
aesthetic enjoyment and that their property values have declined as a result.
The historical information was then reviewed for the Commission with Rich noting that when aerial
photos of the pond (taken in May, 1985 and April, 1989) were compared, there was a significantly larger
area of open water in 1985 than In 1989. Rich explained that Eagan's Stormwater Management Plan
(August, 1990) indicated a planned normal water elevation 1 878 feet and a high water level of 880.5 for
this pond. As-built data indicated the storm water system was constructed to provide a normal water
elevation about 2 feel lower than the planned elevation. The explanation for this discrepancy indicates
an error in the Stormwater Management Plan calculation because the pond's normal water elevation was
taken from a preliminary grading plan that was incorrect. The consultant contends that the normal water
elevation of 876 shown on the as-builts should be the normal water level identified In the Stormwater
Management Plan for Pond JP-30.1. The consultant also acknowledged the pond water level prior to
construction of the storm sewer was at 876.6 feet but that the storm water outlet was eructed to
maintain a pond elevation of 876 feet. This was done to Improve drainage from up-drainage low areas
to prevent inundation of a buried pipeline during high run-off conditions.
Rich indicated that there may be three solutions to be considered. The first would be vegetation
management which would be fairly inexpensive however this solution would be treating the symptoms and
not the issues. The second possible solution would be sediment removal which the petitioners favor. The
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
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PAGE 4
advantage of this solution would be some improvement in water quality however, the disadvantage would
be the estimated $10,600 - 21,300 cost to dredge up to 3 feet. The third option for consideration would
be to raise the normal water surface elevation. This alternative would likely increase the flood potential
of the lowest houses adjacent to the pond and may increase somewhat the maintenance costs of the
storm sewer around the inlets. Also, raising the normal water level of the pond by 2 feet will reduce the
rate at which the wetland east of Greensboro Court can be emptied of flood water, potentially affecting
a pipeline and other property. The estimated cost for raising the invert on the outlet pipe is about $1300.
Shawn Hunter invited the petitioners present to share their comments and concerns.
Mike Kennedy, 3786 Greensboro Court indicated that he had initiated the petition. He thanked
Rich Brasch for his help and the exchange of information that has been provided. He commented that
the natural water level of this pond is 876.6 and that the normal water level is 878. Mr. Kennedy continued
that he had pictures as documentation that show 878 as the normal water level based on what they've
seen in the past. There concern is that there won't be any pord left if this situation isn't resolved. He
continued that the sedimentation build-up around outlets and inlets is significant. Dick Carroll asked Mr.
Kennedy how the petitioners felt about sharing the cost of resolving this issue. Mr. Kennedy responded
that he personally did not feel they had a responsibility for the cost since the sedimentation build-up is
not normal.
Resident of 982 Greensboro stated that pond had a great deal of appeal and his lot carried a
$3,000 premium for being adjacent to it. He shared pictures with the Commission showing the pond
before the storm sewer was installed in February/March, 1987. The second pictures were taken in
May/June of the same year. The third set of pictures were taken the end of June/July which, according
to the petitioners, shows the diminished water quality even within that time frame.
Ron Balker, 3656 Greensboro stated he lives east of the pond and is one of the two lowest lots.
He expressed his preference for the water level not to be raised because of his concern for flooding.
Shawn Hunter thanked the petitioners for their input and commented that it appeared that
sedimentation in the pond was the largest issue. He asked Rich Brasch if ponds of this type normally fill
in without a storm water system being installed. Rich commented that construction erosion could very
well be a main factor in this problem.
John Griggs, noting that there are 17 acres of direct runoff and 63 acres of Indirect runoff, asked
if the pond filled in immediately after the storm water system was installed or after construction in the
surrounding area Mr. Brasch responded that this is unknown. John Griggs then asked If It was known
If the sloped surfaces to the pond were sodded the first year to which the petitioners responded not to
the level that is currently required.
After extensive discussion, Ted Billy moved, Lee Markell seconded with all members voting In favor
to recommend that a feasibility study be prepared to develop more detailed costs and other Information
on the issue presented including a legal opinion. The motion was carried.
Shawn Hunter commented that the Commission needed to proceed on this Issue cautiously since
this first petition will be setting a precedent.
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PAGE 5
WATER QUALITY PETITION PROCESS
Rich Brasch brought the Commission's attention to the petition process time line on page 39 of
the packet which took the process from the initial meeting with petitioners to the prioritization of capital
improvements projects by the Commission. It is anticipated the entire time frame could be completed
within 21 weeks based on the date of submission of the correct and complete petition.
Shawn Hunter commented that the petition should be reviewed by the City Attorney. John Griggs
asked when it would be important during this process to identify the need to obtain a core sample to
which Rich Brash responded as early as possible. Mr. Griggs then questioned the cost to have this done.
The costs were not available at this time. Shawn Hunter suggested that Rich Brasch come back to the
Commission with cost estimates for some of the services that may need to be provided during a petition
process and thought should be given to asking petitioners to offset some of those costs up front.
MAINTENANCE REPORT
John VonDeLinde directed the Commission's attention to pages 25-30 In the packet which
covered summer maintenance/operations. John reviewed the various summer construction projects that
are planned, summer maintenance activities as well as forestry activities. John commented that staff sees
a shift in maintenance in the parks this year with fewer large construction projects being planned. Some
of the construction projects noted were athletic bench installation, concrete waste container installation,
construction of 6 new playgrounds and observation/fishing deck for the east end of Carlson Lake Park.
John Griggs asked if any of the parks in Eagan offered 'tall swings' so that adults can swing when
they take their children to parks. Shawn Hunter echoed John Griggs' request but suggested that this be
discussed during one of the long-range planning sessions.
John VonDeLinde continued that mowing has begun for an estimated 420 acres each week on
the city's 57 public sites and 70 miles of boulevards. Additionally, staff is working of a forestry brochure
for the public. Ted Billy noted he was impressed by the number of weed complaints that are anticipated
in 1991. John VonDeLinde noted that the majority of the calls come from new developments while 20%
come from already developed lots.
Regarding Carlson Lake, John Griggs shared a comment from a neighbor that they were very
pleased with the work done at this park to date.
TRANS-X - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
Stephen Sullivan noted that the Commission doesn't usually deal with conditional use permits
however this request is for a truck terminal trailer parking along the westerly edge of the site abutting
Lexington Park. The subject parcel is typically 6'-8' below the park's elevation but If this grade Is
maintained at the parking stalls, including the 6' fence, a majority of the screening should be
accomplished. Staff feels that the development should be responsible for screening of trailers from the
park utilizing the fence, sensitive grading design and landscaping.
John Griggs asked if the fence was to be provided for security as well as screening to which
Steve responded the primary intent would be for screening. John continued that the functional use of
the fence conflicts with the functional use of the park.
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
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PAGE 6
After further discussion, Ted Billy moved, Deborah Johnson seconded with all members voting
in favor of recommending to the City Council that the conditions of the permit, if the Council decided to
approve it, include that the proponent be responsible for providing for park staff review of a detailed
landscape and grading plan which would screen semi-trailers from Lexington Park and adjacent residential
area. Park staff would need to give approval to these plans prior to issuance of a building permit.
WEDGEWOOD 1ST ADDITION - PARKLAND STUDY
Stephen Sullivan provided background information on the 10.88 acre parcel located east of Walnut
Hill Park, north of Wilderness Run Road and adjacent to the Highline Corridor. He stated that an
application for a preliminary plat was submitted for this parcel in the early 80's which proposed 22 lots
on the 10.88 acres. This was never final platted and the parcel was acquired by the City in 1989 as a
component of the 65 acre Lexington/Diffley site.
Steve continued that the site is characterized by steep slopes to the north and south with a
central saddle bisecting the site to the east and west with a small wetland within the west side of the
parcel. Also, a north/south NSP 50' easement bisects this parcel which is primarily the only area void of
woodland. Existing woods are primarily oak, aspen and cherry.
Steve stated that the cost of this parcel per acre was calculated to be $17,870. With that in mind,
the Commission has three options to consider; 1) To utilize the parcel for parkland purposes by rezoning
from R-1 to Public Facilities, 2) To put the parcel on the market for sale, 3) Hold the parcel allowing for
future considerations.
Ted Billy asked if the zoning was changed to Public Facilities and the City changed their mind
could it be changed back to an R-1 zoning. Shawn Hunter asked what kinds of improvements could be
made to the property while it retained the R-1 zoning. The response was that trails and duck blinds would
fall into this category. Ted Billy expressed his concern that as land costs continue to escalate it would
be important for the City to encompass this parcel within the park system so that it does not disappear
at a later date Deborah Johnson agreed that it seemed logical to hold this parcel for future park use.
Shawn Hunter said he hated to eliminate any options and would prefer that the parcel not be re-
zoned in the event it needed to be sold at a later date. John Griggs made a recommendation that the
zoning be changed to Public Facilities and in the event the parcel needed to be sold, the issue would
come back to the Commission for action. Ted Billy reiterated his concern that the property may be sold
if it is not designated for park property. Ken Vraa clarified that the City could not sell the property
outright; it would need to be declared as 'surplus property' first.
After further discussion, Ted Billy moved, Lee Markell seconded the motion that the parcel be
used for parkland and that a recommendation be made that the rezoning process from R-1 to Public
Facilities begin. Deborah Johnson, Ted Billy, Lee Markell, and John Griggs voted in favor and Shawn
Hunter voted against. The motion carried.
IiAPPEf~YNGS
Dorothy Peterson noted that 100 people attended the Star Gazing event at Thomas Lake Park,
the sand volleyball courts are being heavily used by casual users and will be scheduled for league play
as well, golf lessons will be offered this summer at Troon Learning Center in Savage and the rainy weather
has posed some scheduling problems for softball and baseball programs throughout the City.
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PAGE 7
John VonDeLinde commented that new park identification signs have been installed and the
prairie bum at Thomas Lake was very successful. Lee Markell expressed an interest in including
Commission members in on the next bum. John responded that staff usually doesn't know until the day
before when they can proceed with the bum, therefore, it may be difficult to give Commission members
adequate time to attend.
Ken Vraa stated that the Highline grading problem has been brought back to the developer to
resolve. A letter will be going to the developer to seed the area immediately and comply with other
recommendations the Commission has requested.
Ken reminded Commission members of the long range planning meeting scheduled for next
Thursday at 6:30 p.m.
The grading in Ohmann Park will begin on Monday to help mitigate a drainage problem in the
area The additional storm water may turn the dry pond at Ohmann to a wet pond, however, staff will
continue to evaluate an keep the Commission updated.
ROUND TABLE
John Griggs noted that the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra has offered 18 tickets to a concert at the
Ordway which will be distributed to Commission Members, Council Members and some ISD 196 members.
There will be a pre-concert discussion at 7 p.m. with the concert following at 8 p.m.
Shawn Hunter stated he had talked to the Lions Club regarding the St. Paul Chamber event and
they explained some of their concerns: 1) It is the end of their fiscal year, 2) There are no scheduled
summer meetings to discuss this issue further, 3) $17,000 of next year's dollar allocation has already
been earmarked for charitable causes. They would also need to have a written request outlining what
the need request is, how the money would be spent and how it would be of benefit to the community.
Shawn continued that the Lions were interested in playing a role but needed to be approached formally.
Ted Billy noted that Blackhawk Park was scheduled for the next City Council meeting and
encouraged Commission Members to attend the meeting.
With no further business to conduct, Lee Markell moved, Ted Billy seconded with all members
voting in favor to adjourn. The meeting was adjourned at 11:05 p.m.
ret Date