07/16/1992 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
JULY 16, 1992
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission was called
to order at 7:00 p.m. on Thursday, July 16, 1992 with the following Commission Members present: Jonathan
Widem, Erin Ipsen, Lee Markell, Dan Mooradian, Kevin Knight and Jack Johnson. Commission Members
Deborah Johnson and Ted Billy were not present. Staff present included Ken Vraa, Director of Parks and
Recreation; Stephen Sullivan, Landscape Architect/Park Planner; Dorothy Peterson, Superintendent of
Recreation; John VonDeLinde, Parks Superintendent; Rich Brasch, Water Resources Coordinator; Dave
Running, Intern and Cherryl Mesko, Secretary.
AGENDA
Director Vraa asked that "Wetlands Task Force" be added as Item 2 under Water Quality. Dan
Mooradian moved, Erin Ipsen seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as amended.
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF JUNE 4, 1992
Kevin Knight moved, Dan Mooradian seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes
as presented.
MEGHAN'S ADDITION - PULSAR, INC.
Stephen Sullivan reviewed this item with the Commission noting that the current proposal has been
revised since the Commission reviewed this parcel at the March 5, 1992 meeting. It was noted that staff has
been unable to complete a comprehensive evaluation of the proposal since the information provided to the City
to date has been incomplete. This issue will be brought back before the Commission as the necessary
information is received from the developer.
Water Quality Coordinator Brasch explained that Public Works feels there may be a problem with
storm water run-off; if the run-off goes directly to Cedar Pond there may be a need for additional ponding.
Rich noted that to date he has not seen the storm water layout for this site.
Director Vraa added that this development appears to be close to final submittal based on staff's review
of some unresolved issues. It's anticipated this item maybe back to the Commission in August as the developer
would like to begin work yet this fall.
HAWTHORNE WOODS WEST - LYMAN DEVELOPMENT CO.
Landscape Architect/Parks Planner Sullivan introduced this item as an application requesting the
rezoning of 9.2 acres to R-1 single family and the preliminary platting of 12 lots. The site is located east of
Dodd Road and south of Diffley Road adjacent to the Hawthorne Woods Addition. He continued that Lakeside
and South Oak Parks serve this development therefore a cash dedication is being recommended along with a
cash trails dedication.
Rich Brash reviewed the water quality issues regarding this site noting that the run-off will discharge
to Pond JP-68, a 3.4 acre wetland classified as a protected water by the DNR. The DNR has established a high
water level for this wetland therefore no fill or excavation can occur within that area.
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCE COMMISSION
MINUTES OF RESCHEDULED MEETING OF JULY 16, 1992
PAGE 2
Rich recommended that approximately 4 acres of the 9.2 acre site (including virtually all paved areas
in the development) are proposed to drain to JP-68 and should be treated prior to discharge to protect the water
quality of the pond. The remainder of the site drains overland to off-site areas to the north and east of the
development and cannot easily be directed to the treatment pond nor will it drain to a recreational water body,
therefore a cash dedication would be acceptable for that portion of the site.
After further discussion, Kevin Knight moved, Jonathan Widem seconded with all member voting in
favor to make the following recommendations to the City Council regarding parks and trails dedication for
Hawthorne Woods West Addition.
1. The plat be subject to a cash parks dedication.
2. The plat be subject to a cash trails dedication.
3. The developer shall provide for staff approval a tree protection plan prior to final plat. This
plan shall identify significant trees and tree masses. The plan should also show the proposed
location of tree protection fencing.
Kevin Knight moved, Erin Ipsen seconded with all members voting in favor to make the following
recommendations to the City Council regarding waterquality dedication for Hawthorne Woods West Addition.
1. The developer construct a small nutrient detention basin on-site to treat run-off from ponded
areas within the development. The pond should have a surface area of at least.15 acre and
a volume of at least .38 acre-feet will be needed to adequately treat this run-off. A larger
pond would provide for greater removal of pollutants and could reduce commensurately the
cash dedication associated with the remainder of the site. This on-site pond will treat run-off
from paved areas of the development prior to discharge to Pond JP-68.
2. The treatment obligation for the remainder of the site is to be a cash dedication.
3. The pond design must be approved by City staff and the developer is strongly encouraged to
leave undisturbed riparian vegetation within the wetland boundariesof Pond-68 as determined
using the Corps of Engineers Wetlands Delineation Manual.
PARK SHELTER BUILDING - REPLACEMENT NEEDS
Director Vraa introduced this item and brought the Commission's attention to the background report
in the packet reviewing the status of warming houses at Woodhaven and Lexington Parks. Ken continued that
the warming houses provided at these sites are beginning to deteriorate and the Commission will need to take
a look at how they want to deal with this issue. One option might be to remove the buildings because of their
condition and another could be to look at replacement.
After reviewing the history of the sites Director Vraa suggested that the Commission look at the future
use of each site and the facilities that are provided. Some of the priority issues include the deteriorating
condition of the temporary warming houses at Woodhaven and Lexington Parks; the condition of the
Woodhaven rink which requires notice and an action plan and the design of Woodhaven and Lexington Parks
should be considered in light of the Parks Master Plan and the Commission's vision of the community's need
for facilities within these neighborhood parks five to ten years from now.
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
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Lee Markell asked what the downside would be in waiting 1-2 years before making any changes to
the existing buildings. Director Vraa explained that the existing buildings are more expensive to heat since they
use propane and there is the concern for vandalism but those would be the only downside issues for not taking
any action for a period of time.
Kevin Knight asked if there was a trend in use patterns at these two parks to better help determine
facility needs. Dorothy Peterson indicated that there were no reasonable means to determine that information
because the use levels at park sites varies depending upon the neighborhood population and changes that occur
in that respect.
Jonathan Widem asked if there was a concern for safety in respect to these buildings. John
VonDeLinde responded that the risk management company has addressed the use of propane and the electrical
wiring coming off the pole to the building as potential problem areas. John also stated that the skating rink at
Woodhaven is built into the hill and is nearing the end of it's life expectancy. He suggested that if Woodhaven
will continue to be a skating site the condition of the rink needs to be addressed as well.
Lee MarkelI asked what staff's feelings were regarding the best solution for these sites. Director Vraa
responded that there were mixed feelings among staff based on each of their perspectives. For example, the
removal of Lexington as a skating site may create a hardship for this area which is isolated from other areas.
Ken asked that the Commission take a look at both short term and long term options regarding these sites.
Some of the alternatives the Commission may consider include renting or purchasing a trailer for the sites,
construct a shelter building similar to those at Carnelian and Clearwater or do nothing and eliminate the
building and rink at these sites.
Kevin Knight asked if there were dollars in the budget to provide for either a trailer facility or a new
shelter building or to do sufficient repairs to the existing buildings to allow them to be usable longer. Ken Vraa
responded that there are not dollars allocated for significant repairs, only for emergency repairs, however if the
Commission is looking at building a building, leasing or'purchasing a trailer that would be an item that would
need to be submitted for the 1993 budget as soon as possible.
Dan Mooradian stated he would not be inclined to close sites. Kevin Knight agreed since Lexington
is a very remote site but preferred doing some repair to the facilities to help get through the year.
As a point of reference John VonDeLinde explained that an 8' x 24' trailer cost approximately $8,000
to purchase and has an 8 year payback; the cost of a permanent structure like that at Clearwater Park would
cost approximately $12,000 and like the one at Carnelian, approximately $20-22,000. Stephen Sullivan added
that this is the beginning of a trend the Commission will be needing to address on a regular basis; the changes
and replacement that will need to occur at existing parks rather than the construction of new parks.
Erin Ipsen noted that in purchasing a trailer there would be the potential for year-round use ratherthan
renting a trailer for the three months needed for the skating season. Also, if the Commission is looking at
purchasing, renting or building a building this needs to be budgeted for now.
Jack Johnson stated he was not in favor of purchasing a permanent structure at this time but would
rather see rentals occur this season and re-visit the issue in a year. Dan Mooradian agreed with renting at
Lexington this year and re-visiting next year. Jonathan Widem suggested that if a trailer were purchased for
Woodhaven ($8,000) and a rental trailer was planned for Lexington for the 1992/93 and 1993/94 seasons ($800
each season) than $10,000 would need to be budgeted now to accommodate those needs.
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MINUTES OF RESCHEDULED MEETING OF JULY 16, 1992
PAGE 4
After further discussion, Jonathan Widem moved that $10,000 be budgeted for the purchase of a trailer
at Woodhaven Park and trailer rental for two years at Lexington Park. Jack Johnson amended the motion to
include the maximum rental time for Lexington Park would be 2 years and also recommended that the
hockey/skating rinks at Lexington and Woodhaven Parks be maintained for a minimum of two years based on
supporting survey information of users. This item will be reviewed again in one year. Lee Markell seconded
the motion with all member voting in favor.
LAWN SOIL TESTING PROPOSAL
Water Resources Coordinator Brasch explained that staff is developing a proposal with Nick Slader,
a Life Scout in Boy Scout Troop 510 in Eagan, to sample the nutrient content of soils in 150-200 residential
and commercial yards. Nick wants to use this project to fulfill requirements for a service project to achieve
the rank of Eagle Scout. Rich noted. that the active promOtion by the City of no-phosphorus fertilizer use by
residents and businesses will be helped if there was data that indicated that turf health would not be
compromised by the use of no-phosphorus fertilizer to reduce phosphorus loading to lakes. The objective of
this effort is to obtain information on the phosphorus content of lawn soils representative of the entire
community. The cost involved for the sample analyses by the University Soils Testing Laboratory is
approximately $1,000 - $1,400 and it is anticipated that the City would pay those costs.
Jack Johnson commented that the dollars expended would be worth the information received that can
be very helpful in the future. Kevin Knight asked if there was any way the University could negotiate a better
rate for these test results or to see if these results could be of benefit to someone else, thereby reducing the
cost.
In response to a question Rich Brasch stated that the test sites have been located and will be done on
private properties. Jonathan Widem suggested that someone should check with some of the no-phosphorus
fertilizer manufacturers to see if they would be interested in offsetting some of the costs for testing. Lee Markell
indicated he would like to see the dollars spent if financial support cannot be obtained but wondered if there
was a way to make this testing procedure more visual, i.e. improvement in water quality at a specific park.
Rich Brasch stated he didn't know if it was possible to show this kind of improvement visually. Steve Sullivan
suggested a signing option such as "Phosphorus Reduction Area".
After further discussion, Lee Markell moved, Jonathan Widem seconded the motion to proceed with
the soil nutrient testing project and expend the $1,000 - 1,400 that may be necessary for sample analyses by
the University Soils Testing Laboratory. All members voted in favor.
WETLANDS TASK FORCE
Rich Brasch suggested it would be appropriate for the Water Quality Task Force to resume their
meetings to set City Policy in determining criteria for developments in avoidance vs. replacement issues as they
relate to wetlands on their sites. Rich envisioned the Task Force would begin meeting in late August/early
September so that policies are in place when development starts in the spring.
Based on the strong interest shown by most Commission Members, it was determined that the Task
Force would be open to all Commission Members interested in attending. Rich Brasch stated he would provide
background information before the first meeting and would establish a meeting date for the Water Quality Task
Force at the August meeting.
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
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DEPARTMENT HAPPENINGS
Some of the Department Happenings highlighted included the number of registrations for summer
programs (5500 to date), the construction at Deerwood Elementary resulting in having to transfer programs to
Oak Ridge Elementary, planning for fall programming will begin in August, the successful Evening in the Park
series, the long-term problem with oak wilt that will need to be addressed, the construction of Trapp Farm
playground is nearing completion, the County's Adult Sentencing-to-Service Program has completed many
projects throughout the park system and the Parks Department acquired a second Toro high capacity mower
that has greatly improved the efficiency of the overall mowing operation.
ROUND TABLE
Lee Markel) thanked staff for the early reports sent to the Commission Members and asked for an
update on Blackhawk Park. Steve Sullivan responded that the bid time frame has been set, the park has been
designed, will need more definition but will be go out for bid shortly.
Jack Johnson asked for an update on the Caponi Art Park. Director Vraa responded that the City
Council has agreed to do a tunnel to tie the art park to Patrick Eagan Park. Mr. Caponi has requested that a
retaining wall be installed, however the City will not be able to absorb those costs and the County does need
the City's approval before incorporating a wall within their expansion plans. The retaining wall issue will be
reviewed by the City Council at their next meeting. Jack Johnson asked what the timing of this project would
be and Mr. Vraa responded that the county has decided not to proceed with the construction of Co. Rd. 30
this year therefore the exact timing is unknown at this time.
Jack Johnson added that he would like to see the Commission take an active role in establishing a
community event that can hopefully be continued on an annual basis.
Director Vraa noted that Barbara Sellars from the department would be leaving the department effective
July 31 for a move to Phoenix.
With no further business to conduct, Lee Markell moved, Jonathan Widem seconded with all members
voting in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m.
Secretary Date