10/17/1994 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF
ADVISORY PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
October 17, 1994
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission was called
to order at 7:00 pm on October 17, 1994 with the following Commission Members present: Sherie Wallace,
Jonathan Widem, Lee Markell, Ken Tyler and Michael Vincent. Commission Member David Szott arrived at
7:35 pm. Commission Members not present included Ted Billy, George Kubik, John Rudolph and Stephen
Thompson. Staff present included Dorothy Peterson, Superintendent of Recreation; John VonDeLinde, Parks
Superintendent; Rich Brasch, Water Resources Coordinator; C.J. Lilly, Landscape Architect/Parks Planner; Gregg
Hove, Forestry Supervisor; Shannon Tyree, Project Planner and Cherryl Mesko, Secretary.
DEPARTMENT HAPPENINGS
Superintendent Peterson reviewed several items under Department Happenings including the National
Recreation and Park Association Congress being hosted in Minneapolis. Recreation staff worked an information
booth and staff hosted an on-site tour of the Caponi Art Park and the Walker Art Center for 24 people from
around the country. Superintendent VonDeLinde, along with Jim Storland, presented the Water Resources
Management Plan at one of the sessions as well.
Other Happenings highlighted included the Dakota Civic Theatre using the Sky Hill Park shelter
building for rehearsal of a 3 person play; collaborative effort between the City and several 196 schools to obtain
grant funding for Youth at Risk programming; grant awarded to Myndi Cohee to attend a Recreational Tennis
Leadership Workshop in Los Angeles; recent trip to Appleside Orchard by the Tiny Tots; coordination of a 5K
run for the YMCA; search has begun for approximately 35 winter staff; the annual Terror Trail and Treat Trail
will be held on October 28; and the basketball and volleyball leagues are running with a new format separating
the fall and winter season.
Superintendent VonDeLinde reviewed the transplanting of 19 trees from the Municipal Center campus
to Holz Farm Park; the installation of a landscape buffer along the west boundary of Lexington/Diffley Park;
the educational oak wilt video is nearing completion; landscaping at Blackhawk Park is nearing completion
along with the playground; Twin Cities Tree Trust has begun work on the retaining wall at Bur Oaks Park; the
Sentencing to Service Program completed the staining of hockey rinks; the DNR expects to open a new "natural
resources" grant program in 1995 and Jeff Perry has been hired as the Department's new Parks
Maintenance/Forestry Technician.
VISITORS TO BE HEARD
There was no one present who wished to be heard under this agenda item.
PARKS DEVELOPMENT UPDATE
Landscape Architect/Parks Planner Lilly provided a video presentation of Lexington/Diffley, Holz Farm,
Bur Oaks, Blackhawk and Walden Heights Parks. CJ noted that Lexington/Diffley is 95% complete and
identified the areas within Holz Farm Park where trees had been transplanted from the Municipal Center. It
is anticipated that playground equipment will be incorporated in Holz Farm Park in 1995. Bur Oaks Park is
ready for installation of playground equipment, CJ continued, and Blackhawk Park playground is nearing
completion. Parks Planner Lilly also pointed out the location for a potential pavilion at Blackhawk Park.
Relative to the Walden Heights Park property, CJ pointed out the long narrow configuration of the existing
property explaining that there would be a neighborhood meeting on October 26 to solicit input from the
neighboring residents regarding the potential development of this property.
Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resouces Commission
Minutes of October 14, 1994 Meeting
Page 2
EASTER LUTHERAN CHURCH
Superintendent VonDeLinde introduced this item noting the Commission had visited the site prior to
this evening's meeting.
Michael Schroeder, representing Easter Lutheran church explained they have been working with City
staff for some time to see how they could facilitate future expansion. The church has determined that their
current building at the corner of Diffley and Pilot Knob has a 400 seat capacity and provides no opportunity
for expansion. With their membership currently at 2800 members, the church is looking at a five year plan
to provide for future expansion and the site they have identified is located at the northwest intersection of Cliff
and Pilot Knob Roads. Mr. Schroeder shared elevations and proposed layout for this site. The site is L-shaped
with large changes in the topography. There is little significant vegetation on site with the largest amount on
the shoreline of Thomas Lake Park. The church is anticipating a 75,000 sq. ft. church facility/christian
education building with the building moving as close to the 50' setback of Thomas Lake as possible. Parking
will be provided with smaller lots rather than one large lot. Although the City requires 1 parking stall for every
3' seats, the church will be providing 1 parking stall for every 2'/a seats.
Mr. Schroeder explained that Cahill and Associates has worked on a fairly new concept for storm water
management using recharge beds. These beds are constructed to allow for a more natural water flow before
discharging into Thomas Lake in an attempt to minimize impact to the lake. It was also noted that a significant
amount of the site would be disturbed to allow for this development. After sharing elevations of the proposed
building from Thomas Lake using existing vegetation and shoreline, Mr. Schroeder concluded by stating that
the church will follow mitigation fortree preservation and will practice the best management available to allow
the least impact on the land.
Jonathan Widem asked if a woodland site analysis has been done on this site. Forestry Supervisor
Hove responded that of the 169 significant trees on site, 102 (60%) will be removed based on the analysis
submitted by Eastern Lutheran Church. Mitigation would be approximately 100 trees, Hove added.
Member Widem asked if staff was familiar with the recharge beds that are being proposed at this site.
Water Resources Coordinator Brasch responded that he doesn't have first hand information on this process
however he has been in contact with Cahill and Associates for further clarification. Coordinator Brasch did
note that mitigation cannot be completely provided with on-site ponding but a combination of on-site and off-
site could be considered.
In response to a question about what would be offered in their educational facilities, a representative
from Easter Lutheran Church explained that the school programs currently run on Wednesday and Sunday and
they may continue with the pre-school program they are currently offering. It was noted that in 1974 there
were 20 families in the congregation compared to slightly under 800 currently. Easter Lutheran is anticipating
a continuous growth of 10-15% annually and it is hoped that the new building will hold between 800 - 1200
people. A priority for the church's expansion was to allow for sufficient parking on site.
Member Markell explained that the Commission will be looking closely at the impervious surface
within this development and suggested the church give some thought to how they might be able to scale back
some of the parking if they were requested to. Member Markell also asked how the church would feel about
providing trails that link to Thomas Lake. A representative of the church indicated they would be willing to
work on this request with staff.
After further discussion, Jonathan Widem moved, Sherie Wallace seconded with all members voting
in favor to defer this item to the Natural Resources Sub-committee for further review and discussion.
As a clarification for Easter Lutheran Church, Chairman Markell explained that the sub-committee
would make itself available to meet with the applicant and this item would come back to the Advisory Parks,
Recreation and Natural Resources Commission on November 14.
Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resouces Commission
Minutes of October 14, 1994 Meeting
Page 3
CONSENT AGENDA
Jonathan Widem moved, Michael Vincent seconded with all members voting in favor to make the
following recommendations to the City Council:
1. Recommendation for Modification of Pond JP-14. The preparation of detailed plans and
specifications, pending agreement with Williams Pipeline Company on the acceptability of
raising the normal water level of Pond JP-14 by up to 2 feet, be approved.
TOWN CENTRE 100 FIFTEENTH ADDITION - RED ROBIN
Project Planner Tyree introduced this item as a request for a Final Planned Development within the
Eagan Heights Planned Development; a Preliminary Subdivision of one lot on 2.33 acres proposed as Town
Centre 100 Fifteenth Addition; a Conditional Use Permit to allow the sale of liquor, 3.2 beer and wine; and
a Variance of 1' to the required 10' minimum parking stall width, all located on part of Outlot G, Town Centre
100 Fifteenth Addition. Planner Tyree explained that the proposed subdivision complies with applicable City
Code provisions and the Comprehensive Guide Plan and the site physically is suitable for the proposed density
of the development. Red Robin is planning for a single story, 225 seat restaurant with 120 parking stalls.
Planner Tyree explained that there is a significant woodland of approximately 4,900 sq.ft. on the north
edge of Pond DP-20 and this development will removed 100% of that woodland. The developer will be
required to mitigate the 3,400 sq.ft. above the allowable removable, which equates to 28 Category 'A" trees,
in addition to the normal landscaping requirements. It was noted that mitigation should occur at the north end
of Pond DP-20 to continue the replacement near the riparian zone around the pond's edge similar to what the
Mann Theater project is providing.
The site is located within drainage basin D; Pond DP-20, classified as a nutrient trap, discharges into
O'Leary Park, a Class II indirect contact lake. A new stormwater drainage system will capture the runoff from
the site and discharge into pond DP-20.
Planner Tyree added that the plans will be revised to include a 6 foot concrete sidewalk along Yankee
Place northward to Yankee Doodle Road which will be a continuance of the existing Mann Theater sidewalk.
The plan also shows a 6 foot trail around the pond and a north/south trail located along the east property line.
It was also noted that the trails would need to comply with the City's standard width of 8 feet and the elevation
of the trail would need to be above the HWL of Pond DP-20. Shannon concluded that this development has
previously fulfilled their parks dedication requirements with the Eagan Heights Commercial Park Planned
Development.
Member Markel) asked what the City's parking requirements would be for this development. Planner
Tyree responded that 85 parking spaces would be the minimum for a 255 seat restaurant, however, the
developer is providing 120 spaces.
Member Markell asked if the developer could move the building away from the wetland to eliminate
some, if not all, the tree removal. It was suggested that if the building were moved north, some parking stalls
would be lost but the trees could then be preserved around the wetland. Planner Tyree stated the developer
has indicated a need for 120 parking spaces and may be concerned about losing any of them. Member Vincent
asked if this item could be deferred until the developer had a chance to respond to this question. Planner Tyree
responded that this item has been deferred previously and the developer is anxious to proceed. Superintendent
VonDeLinde asked if there would be fire codes relevant to access to the north side of the building if the parking
spaces were removed. Planner Tyree was not aware of what the fire code restrictions would be, however,
reiterated that the developer would not be amenable to having this item deferred. Member Widem stated his
discomfort with allowing the level of tree removal that is being proposed. Member Wallace asked if there have
been any cross easements for parking considered. Planner Tyree responded there were no parking cross
easements.
Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resouces Commission
Minutes of October 14, 1994 Meeting
Page 4
Forestry Supervisor Hove stated that if the woodland is going to be preserved, as the Commission is
requesting, the trail around Pond DP-20 will need to move. Superintendent VonDeLinde explained that
revegetation around the wetland could be similar to that near the Mann Theater. It was also noted that at staff's
request, the developer relocated the restaurant near the wetland/pond area. Another consideration, Tyree
continued, was that there is a 50' setback required on the north side of the site which would limit to
approximately 12' the distance the building could be moved north.
Member Vincent questioned the gain in having the building move 12 feet and felt it would be more
beneficial to require the developer to replant the area around the pond. Supervisor Hove responded that staff
is requiring the restoration of that area as mitigation. Planner Tyree added that the developer is amenable to.
working with the City to restore the area. Superintendent VonDeLinde empathized with the subjective decision
in weighing if the existing wetland is more beneficial. He asked the Commission how they felt about having
to move the trail if the woodland remained.
Member Szott asked if the developer opposed the installation of the trail. Planner Tyree responded
that the developer is supportive of continuing the trail around the pond. Member Szott wondered if a public
trail would adversely impact the restaurant.
Member Tyler expressed his concern with the mitigation of this site. He opined that the removal of
several 4-6' diameter trees and replacement with 28, 1-1/2' diameter trees did not seem equitable. He also
questioned the removal of existing wetland vegetation to be replaced with new wetland vegetation. Ken asked
if the green space to the north of the building would be bermed and landscaped. Planner Tyree responded that
it would.
Member Vincent indicated his acceptance of the tree preservation mitigation and opined that by
moving the building north a substantial portion of the woodlands may not be able to be preserved along with
providing a trail as is planned.
Superintendent VonDeLinde suggested that staff work with the developer to see if the building could
feasibly be moved north and then try to preserve as much of the woodland as possible. Member Widem added
that after staff works with the developer, this item should be brought back to the Natural Resources sub-
committee for review. Planner Tyree interjected that the developer is from California and is planning on
attending the Advisory Planning Commission meeting on October 25, therefore, it may not be feasible for them
to meet with staff and the sub-committee prior to that. Member Widem reiterated his discomfort with
proceeding with this proposal until staff and the sub-committee had met with the developer to resolve
outstanding issues. Member Vincent opined that staff should be allowed to work out any particulars with the
developer and questioned the validity of deferring this item. Member Tyler stated he did not feel it was fair
to staff to have them interpret what the Commission may/may not want the developer to do.
After further discussion, Jonathan Widem moved and Ken Tyler seconded a motion to defer this item
to the November 14 Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission meeting pending review
by staff with the developer and further review by the Natural Resources sub-committee. Those voting Aye
included, David Szott, Ken Tyler, Lee Markell, Jonathan Widem and Sherie Wallace. Michael Vincent voted
Nay. The motion passed.
Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resouces Commission
Minutes of October 14, 1994 Meeting
Page 5
LENTSCHS DEERWOOD POINTE
Project Planner Tyree introduced this item explaining that Signature Properties is requesting approval
of a Rezoning from A to R-1, Single Family and Preliminary Subdivision consisting of 3 lots on 1.72 acres
which is located north of Deerwood Drive and west of Pilot Knob Road at 1475 Deerwood Drive. Planner
Tyree continued that the grading plan submitted was acceptable and there were no jurisdictional wetlands on
this site. The Tree Preservation Plan received, however is not acceptable Tyree continued. It was noted that
the plan does not delineate grading limits, tree protection measures or significant woodlands. A revised Tree
Preservation Plan would need to be submitted and reviewed/approved by staff prior to City Council action on
this preliminary subdivision request. Since the City is not looking for parkland in this area nor does the City's
Trail Plan reflect a trail connection to existing trails along Pilot Knob Road or Deerwood Drive,a cash parks
and trails dedication is being recommended.
Don Lentsch explained that he would be willing to work with staff for clarification of any outstanding
issues relative to this development and will provide a new Tree Preservation Plan to staff as soon as possible.
Member Markell suggested that if the new Tree Preservation Plan comes back within the Tree Preservation
Guidelines, the proposal should be able to proceed on through the process. If the new Plan exceeds the
Guidelines, then this issue should be deferred to the earliest Natural Resources Sub-committee meeting. The
developer explained he would provide staff with a new Tree Preservation Plan in the very near future so this
process can continue on track.
After further discussion, Jonathan Widem moved, Sherie Wallace seconded with all members voting
in favor to defer this item until the developer submits a new Tree Preservation Plan. If the Tree Preservation
Plan does not meet the Tree Preservation Guidelines, this item will be addressed at the earliest Natural
Resources Sub-Committee and then brought back to the Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources
Commission on November 14, 1994.
METROPOLITAN MOSQUITO CONTROL DISTRICT REPORT
Jonathan Widem explained that the Natural Resources Sub-Committee had met to discuss the
Metropolitan Mosquito Control District Report as requested by Councilmember Awada. Since the Council has
subsequently asked that this be reviewed further, Jonathan Widem moved, Michael Vincent seconded with all
members voting in favor to defer this item to the Natural Resources Sub-Committee after further clarification
from the City Council.
WATER RESOURCES UPDATE
Water Resources Coordinator Brasch explained that the Natural Resources Sub-committee has met to
review two requests from residents for pond maintenance. The residents were willing to cooperate with
whatever efforts could be identified to enhance their ponds. It was noted that another sub-committee meeting
would be held so that some guidelines could be brought back to the Advisory Commission relative to joint
pond improvement projects with residents.
Member Widem explained that with both requests, the residents have shown a great deal of enthusiasm
and willingness to get involved. The sub-committee felt this would be a good opportunity for a pilot program
to improve neighborhood ponds with the cooperation of the residents. The residents who have requested
assistance are willing to provide funds and manpower to make those improvements.
Chairman Markel) complimented the Natural Resources Sub-committee for their efforts in working with
groups such as this as well as their review of development issues for the Commission. Member Markel I opined
that the review done by the sub-committee helps with the overall decision making of the Commission.
Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resouces Commission
Minutes of October 14, 1994 Meeting
Page 6
ROUND TABLE
Member Markell commented on the dumping of dirt by residents into the wetland area near Cub. He
also noted that a retaining wall has been blown out with rain and erosion and again expressed his concern for
the wetland basins. Markell suggested that Commission Members "adopt" parks throughout the City and do
quarterly "walk throughs" to ensure that composting and/or storage is not occurring on park property. This
could also be a program to get residents more involved in their neighborhood parks, Markell opined.
Superintendent VonDeLinde commented on the successful participation from residents and community groups
in the past but cautioned about the staff involvement required in working on these projects. Member Vincent
suggested that staff create a to do" list so that when residents call inquiring how they can help there will be
a list of items to choose from. Superintendent VonDeLinde suggested that a pilot program with a specific
group, i.e. Scouts, could be initiated to see how it could work and then expand from that point. Member Szott
stated he liked the idea of groups having "ownership" of a project.
Member Tyler commented on the development near Cliff Lake pointing out the benefits of watching
as this project continues. Of specific interest, Tyler continued, is the mitigation for tree loss. The replacement
of 8" or 10" diameter trees with 1-2" diameter trees did not seem equitable to Member Tyler and he questioned
if there was a way to add teeth to the policy to help with this issue. Another point of concern was blown out
retaining walls, downed silt fence and encroachment onto parkland. Member Tyler concluded that this
development is a good one for the Commission and City to look at and learn from.
Member Vincent suggested that the Tree Preservation Plan be more articulate and asked if the City
could escrow funds to ensure that work was completed as it was intended. Superintendent VonDeLinde stated
that although the Plan does articulate clearly, perhaps the issue of mitigation requirements needs to be revisited.
Currently, VonDeLinde continued, there is a minimum $5,000 landscape escrow required to cover landscaping
and the Tree Preservation Policy for developments. Member Widem opined that enforcement was the issue
that may need to be reviewed and tightened.
Member Markell asked if the Tree Preservation Policy could be changed to an ordinance.
Superintendent Von DeLinde and Member Widem stated that a policy allows forflexibil ity whereas an ordinance
doesn't allow room for change unless the ordinance changes. Member Wallace suggested moving this
discussion to the Natural Resources Sub-committee so they can generate a series of questions for the
Commission to respond to in preparation of any policy changes.
Member Widem suggested that staff bring development issues to the Natural Resources Sub-committee
before the regular Commission meeting. It was also suggested that more Commission Members serve on the
Natural Resources Sub-committee. Member Tyler felt that the sub-committee meetings should simply be open
to all Commission Members, if they can attend, in addition to the sub-committee members. Member Vincent
noted that if development issues were going to be reviewed first by the Natural Resources Sub-committee, then
perhaps separate Development and Natural Resources Sub-committees need to be established. Member Tyler
reiterated that if members of the Commission are able to attend any one of the sub-committee meetings they
should do so and did not see a need for adding another sub-committee. Member Szott stated his discomfort
with the number of items that are being deferred at regular meetings and suggested looking at some sequencing
options. Superintendent VonDeLinde responded that staff will research the legality of Member Widem's
suggestion and get back to the Commission. Member Widem stated that developers have expressed an interest
in talking with the Natural Resources Sub-committee. VonDeLinde suggested that the Commission identify
specific circumstances whereby an issue would be deferred to the sub-committee.
Member Vincent suggested providing Commission Members with a calling card so they can identify
themselves as they are visiting with residents in parks and throughout the community. Member Markell, in
response to a question, responded that it is appropriate for a Commission Member, or any resident, to approach
another resident in a park to clarify ordinance violations such as keeping dogs on a leash, picking up after pets,
etc.
Advisory Parks, Recreation and Natural Resouces Commission
Minutes of October 14, 1994 Meeting
Page 7
With no further business to conduct, Jonathan Widem moved, Ken Tyler seconded with all members
voting in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 9:50 pm.
1995
ecretary Date