11/17/1997 - Advisory Parks & Recreation CommissionADVISORY PARKS COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF NOVEMBER 17, 1997
A regulaz meeting of the Advisory Pazks Commission was called to order at 7:00 p.m. on November 17,
1997 with the following Commission Members present: Terry Davis, Jerry Farlee, Bazbara Johnson, Steven
Knutson, George Kubik, Lee Mazkell, Daryle Petersen, John Rudolph, and Michael Vincent. Commission Members
N. Mark Filipi and Michael Zwiefel were not present. Staff present included Ken Vraa, Director of Pazks and
Recreation; Dorothy Peterson, Superintendent of Recreation; Paul Olson, Parks Superintendent; CJ Lilly, Pazks
Planner/Landscape Architect; Rich Brasch, Water Resources Coordinator; Gregg Hove, Forestry Supervisor;
Shannon Tyree, Planner; and Cherryl Mesko, Secretary.
APPROVAL QI+' AOIUI~DA
George Kubik moved, John Rudolph seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as
presented.
API'1~.OVAL OF INUT~~ O.l~'''~.EtXULAIt __ a ~ .
Michael Vincent moved, George Kubik seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes of
the regular meeting of October 20, 1997 as presented.
VISITf?RS TU BE 1~EA1
There were no visitors that wished to be heazd under this agenda item.
PARNT.H ,,
Items highlighted by Director Vraa included the well attended Treat Trail, seazch for winter warming house
staff, extension of city water to the McCarthy house, presentations given by staff at the MRPA annual conference in
Rochester, several projects have been completed in anticipation of spring, winter issue of "Discover Us!" has been
sent to the printer, 45 teams will play for the Eagan Hockey Association this season, dry land hockey practice
continues at Goat Hill Pazk and staff will be reviewing the CIP with the Council on November 25.
CONSIN'1' AGl/NDA
Michael Vincent moved, Bazbaza Johnson seconded with all members voting in favor to make the
following recommendations to the City Council:
1. CAIN ADDITION -JON HERBST. This development will be responsible for a cash parks
dedication and a cash trails dedication. An individual Lot Tree Preservation Plan will be required for
Lot 2 at the time of building permit application. Tree Protective measures (i.e. 4 foot polyethylene
laminate safety netting) shall be installed at the Drip Line or at the perimeter of the Critical Root Zone,
whichever is greater, of significant trees/woodlands to be preserved during site development. The
applicant shall contact the City Forestry Division at least five days prior to the issuance of the grading
permit to ensure compliance with the approved Tree Preservation Plan. The development should be
subject to a cash water quality dedication based on the size of the undeveloped lot.
2. PARK CENTER SIXTH ADDITION -REGAL CINEMAS. This development shall be
responsible for a cash pazks dedication and a cash trails dedication. The applicant shall fulfill tree
preservation mitigation by providing contractual installation of 42 Category B trees (or an equivalent
number of Category A or Category C trees) into a nearby city pazk per city staff prepazed landscape
plan specifications. Installation s hall occur spring, 1998. A tree preservation plan shall be submitted
and reviewed by staff if additional tree removal occurs for development related to proof-of-parking
requirements.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of November 17, 1997
Page 2
3. RAHN RIDGE 3RD ADDITION - RAHN RIDGE ASSOCIATES. This development shall be
responsible for a cash parks dedication and a cash trails dedication. This development shall be
responsible for a cash water quality dedication.
DEVELOPMENT PR(1FOSALS
There were no development items for the Commission to review.
Old IUS
PINETREE PASS - LUNDGREN BROS.
Director Vraa brought the Commission's attention to the November 11, 19971etter from Lundgren Bros. to
the City Council reflecting the changes they proposed in their Pinetree Pass development. He added that the
developer met with the neighborhood on November 12 to provide them with the updated plan. The plan showed the
deletion of two residential lots on the north side of Thomas Lane to be incorporated into the proposed pazk along
with a conceptual park layout. The plan also designated the southern open space as public versus private.
Tent' Forbord, representing Lundgren Bros., explained that he had taken over the project when Bill Anners
left the company. As he looked at the development and the unresolved issues, he elected to meet with the neighbors
with this revised plan to solicit their input. At that meeting he stated that he did not meet the expectations of all
residents, however, felt that they were satisfied with Lundgren's intention to satisfy pazks dedication. Mr. Forbord
concluded by stating that he hoped they had reasonably met the needs for this site and aze hoping to gain the support
of the Advisory Parks Commission before meeting with the Council on November 18.
Member Markell asked Mr. Forbord what they are specifically being asked to accept. Mr. Forbord stated
they hoped the Commission would support the plan, dedication of parkland, and accept the boundaries as laid out.
He did note that the park layout was for illustration only; they did not presume to influence what should be in the
park, only that it was possible for the facilities to fit into the space shown. They would also request that the public
area to the south be designated as passive area so that nothing can be developed on it.
Member Kubik commented that with the plan only recently received by staff there had not been sufficient
time for analysis and recommendation to the Commission. Director Vraa stated that based on the information
received to date, a limited review/analysis of the plan has been done. He added that the City typically receives
dedicated property free of encumbrances, easements, or stipulations that would hinder the use of the site. Member
Kubik reiterated that it was not appropriate to pre-maturely respond to a plan that can have such significant impact
to this pazk service azea given the lateness of this information.
Member Markell asked for an explanation of ponding credit for the southern open space. Director Vraa
responded that where ponding has been determined to have a pazk function, credit will be given at a rate of 50% of
the pond and adjoining land azea below the high water level; a minimum of 70% of land above the high water mazk
shall be dedicated before pond credit is granted. Vraa also noted that the plan presented shows the pond elevation at
896 when staff recommended 898 as the normal high water level.
Rick Sathre, representing Lundgren Bros., stated that 892 is the present pond level and although they agree
with increasing that level, they feel that 896 is appropriate. He also opined that the developer is dedicating 4.4 acres
in the northern portion of the site and 10.9 acres in the southern portion, which satisfies the pazkland dedication.
Member Johnson asked for clarification regazding the passive restriction proposed for the southern open
azea. Mr. Forbord responded that would mean there would be no active events on the property. Residents could use
the azea for walking but this particulaz pazk would be un-urbanized with no activities to conflict with the passive
use. Member Davis clarified that the land would be owned by the City.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of November 17, 1997
Page 3
Member Markell opined that the trail should loop azound the wetland rather than through the middle of the
pond. He also expressed concern that the southern azea lacked presence from the street making it difficult for the
public to see. Mazkell cited the Parks Dedication Policy which stated that, "Developers shall be responsible for
making certain improvements to their developments for pazk, playground and public open space purposes and to
provide sufficient public road access of no less than 300 feet for neighborhood parks and additional frontage for
community parks".
Member Vincent concurred with Member Kubik that it is pre-mature to quickly review this issue because
of the traiUtopographic issues, wetland, visibility from the road and the fact that staff hasn't had enough time to
respond to this latest plan. He didn't feel comfortable reacting to the plan being proposed.
Member Davis commented that the issue the last time this was reviewed was that there was not enough
pazk acreage dedicated. Wasn't it the Commission's concern that the southern area was designated as private, Davis
asked. Now that it's public with a passive designation he opined that this seems to answer the concerns previously
expressed. Director Vraa responded that the southern portion is passive because nothing else can be done with that
land. He noted that for a development to be eligible for park dedication credit, land dedication is to be located
outside of drainways, flood plans or ponding area and grades exceeding 12% or unsuitable for pazks development
shall be considered for partial dedication. With the pond level increasing in this area, there will be very little usable
land, Vraa added.
Member Davis asked if there were enough acres to fulfill park dedication. Director Vraa responded that it
was probably very close to meeting pazks dedication, however, one of the issues is that if the northern pazk is
developed in the location as proposed, 95% of the trees will be lost and the site will need significant grading to
allow development. This was a very big issue for the residents surrounding the pazk.
Member Davis stated there is no consensus from the neighborhood about the development of the north park
and felt the discussion should focus on whether or not the acreage for pazkland dedication has been met. Director
Vraa opined that this could be an opportunity to decide how the land can be used in conjunction with the land
dedication.
Member Petersen stated that at the last meeting the issue was insufficient land and the private pazk.
Although the developer has addressed those issues, Petersen opined that the Commission shouldn't be voting on
something that hasn't been reviewed more extensively. Member Kubik suggested hearing feedback from the public
and then defer this latest plan to asub-committee for further review and recommendation.
Steve Taylor, 1485 Thomas Lane reminded the Commission of the importance of the tree line to the
residents adjacent to the northern pazk. Whatever decision is made for this land, preserving the trees is their highest
priority.
Austin Koffman opined that all the elements shown conceptually on the developer's plan need not be
considered for this park. He felt strongly that this property should be developed as single family and prefers the
trees to be kept with minimal park development.
Dennis Beckley, 1465 Thomas Lane stated he had talked to several neighbors on the east side of the pazk.
They prefer minimal development for the pazk.
Steve Yahn, 1467 Thomas Lane concurred with Steve Taylor's comments noting the salient features of the
pazk aze the hill and vegetation. He expressed concern for a too ambitions development of this pazk.
John Brenberg, 4714 Walden Drive opined that if this proposal was accepted for park development, he
would suggest a playground, open play field, and leave the trees. He felt the southern pazk would be accessible to
neighbors and did not see an issue with providing a more visible entrance.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of November 17, 1997
Page 4
Brenda Brenberg, 4714 Walden Drive agreed that the residents don't agree about what should be included
in this park, but felt that with all the components shown it would be too active. She suggested using signage to help
with the visibility of the southern park.
Lori Tripp, Covington Lane, stated this was the third meeting she's attended regazding this development
and did not feel it was Lundgren Bros. responsibility to satisfy pazks development issues not addressed through
previous developments. She requested that there be no parking off Cliff Road near Thomas Lane. Relative to
visibility concerns for the southern park area, she felt making the entrance more visible would defeat the point of
having a passive, quiet place to walk. Tripp opined that residents had provided their wishes for this site, which
should've given staff sufficient time to review and make recommendations. She concluded by stating that this is a
respected developer who wants to build high quality homes and feels this plan will satisfy current and future
residents.
Todd Johnson, Thomas Lane suggested that the tree line on the north property be preserved, that the active
park not be over built, that there be a flat maintained turf azea, that there be a flat hard court surface, that there be no
aglime field with back stop. He opined that there wasn't a need to duplicate park features that exist in other nearby
parks.
Steve Briggs, Westminster Circle stated his main concern was that the developer provide the 10%pazk land
dedication as required. The actual development of both the north and south area should be based on the needs of the
neighborhood this park will serve.
Paul Cero, 4876 Richazd Lane, noted there are plenty of pazks in Eagan, however, they aze not easily
accessible for the residents in this park service azea. He requested a park that can be accessible by bike without
having to cross major streets. In balancing the need for more land for active space and preserving trees, he opined
that since the south park is a passive, nature area that leaves the option for a more active park in the north. He
concluded by stating that there are many other people's needs to be considered in addition to those residents living
adjacent to the park and safety is the main issue.
Gordy Keeler, Thomas Lane opined that the parking as shown off Thomas Lane was the appropriate
location. He stated he never envisioned this park being used for EAA activities. He sensed it would be an open and
maintained space for free play. Keeler expressed his preference for a trail through the pond rather than azound it and
would like the north pazk to stay the way it is.
Rick Sather, Lundgren Bros. noted that the site is 72 acres; of that 50 acres aze sloped and wooded. The
developer has attempted to meet residents' requests and they feel they are dedicating 15.3 acres; 4.4 for active use
and 10.9 for passive use. He opined that it is not fair to consider slopes in the dedication equation.
Member Fazlee asked what was originally proposed for the central pazk area. Sather responded the
developer originally proposed trails and open space to be owned by the homeowner's association. Member Vincent
asked how much land is part of the wetland. Coordinator Brasch responded that of the 10.9 acres in the central azea,
4.5 acres aze wetland.
Terry Forbord stated that they are trying to salvage the situation. They feel they have attempted to hear
what residents are asking for. They understand the need to have the parkland acreage accurate but this is an issue
that could be debated a lot longer. The developer is confident that they can meet the necessary parkland dedication
requirement of the City. Forbord added that they do not want to get into the issue of what would go into the park;
the issue is the amount of dedication and he promised that the developer would meet those numbers.
Michael Vincent opined that it is not simply the issue of acreage. When this azea is fully developed, there
will be complaints that there needs to be an active pazk in this azea. This is the only way of providing for that future
need for this pazk service azea, Vincent added.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of November 17, 1997
Page 5
Member Johnson opined that the Commission has heard from the neighborhood regarding this development
and they agree with what has been proposed. Johnson moved and Davis seconded a motion to accept the proposal of
Lundgren Bros. provided it meets the acreage required for park dedication. Those voting Aye included Steve
Knutson, Barbara Johnson, Terry Davis and Daryle Petersen. Those voting Nay included John Rudolph, Lee
Mazkell, Michael Vincent, Jerry Fazlee and George Kubik. The motion failed.
Director Vraa reiterated that the parks dedication acreage is reasonably close the way it is. Member Kubik
added that the determination of parkland dedication is a City policy and is not debatable. The Commission's chazge
with this, and any other development, is to balance the needs of the City and the community.
Michael Vincent moved, George Kubik seconded a motion to recommend that this issue be referred to the
Land Acquisition/Development Sub-committee for further review and recommendation.
Barbara Johnson asked what the purpose of the meeting would be. Member Marken stated it would give
staff an opportunity to analyze the site and look at other options for an active pazk. Member Davis asked if the
intention would be to look at changing the outside perimeters of the north park. Member Marken suggested that
may be an option. The motion was called with all members voting in favor.
Member Kubik thanked the developer and neighbors for attending and for their input. He assured them that
the Commission will attempt to make this awin-win situation.
~E'4Y B
1998 PARKS/TRAILS DEDICATION FEES
Director Vraa introduced this item noting that the Commission annually reviews pazks and trails dedication
rates and recommends changes to the City Council for their review and approval. Vraa then reviewed the history of
Eagan's dedication rates from 1995 through 1997 and compazed Eagan's current rates with other communities. It
was noted that dedication fees aze based on land values and in the recent past developers have expressed a
willingness to dedicate cash for their development rather than land. That appeazed to be an indication that land
values had increased, Vraa added. In researching three significant developments in 1997, land was reportedly sold
in excess of $43,000 per acre; significantly more than the $29,000/acre used as a basis for single family residential
land. Staff was suggesting that single family residential acreage be changed to $30,000/acre for dedication
purposes. Based on review of commercial properties, staff would be recommending that the commerciaUindustrial
rate be increased by $100/acre for dedication purposes.
Relative to trails dedication, Director Vraa explained that the rate charged was for the actual cost of
constructing trails. When the cost for construction increases then the dedication rates should increase accordingly.
He also reminded the Commission that the trails dedication rates aze based on the actual miles of trails left to be
developed in the City (based on the Master Trails Plan) divided by the number and types of developments remaining
in the City.
Member Marken asked if $45,000/acre for single family was fairly common for land costs, why was
$30,000/acre being recommended. Director Vraa responded that $30,000/acre was a more accurate average of land
costs. Member Kubik added that Eagan has been conservative in the past with their increases to dedication fees,
however, he too preferred a little higher increase given the limited development remaining in the City. Member
Marken asked what it would cost to have appraisals done so the Commission would have more accurate infonmation
to base this decision. Director Vraa responded that the appraisals would cost approximately $5-600 for each pazcel.
Mazkell added that this information would be helpful for the Commission in making a more informed
recommendation.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of November 17, 1997
Page 6
ABer further brief discussion, Steven Knutson moved, Daryle Petersen seconded with all members voting
in favor to make the following recommendations to the City Council regarding 1998 pazks and trails dedication fees:
Units per Cash Equivalent per
Housine type Average Mazket Value 100 population Residential Unit
Single family $30,000/acre 29.8 $1,208
Duplex 30,000/acre 30 $1,200
Townhouse/Quads 34,875/acre 50.8 $ 823
Apts/Multi 38,054/acre 55.8 $ 818
Commercial/Industrial $56,000/acre ----- $3,300/acre
1998 FEES AND CHARGES
Recreation Superintendent Peterson reviewed the fees and changes from 1997 and then the proposed
changes for 1998. Changes proposed include adding anon-resident fee for picnic kits, increasing maintenance fees
for youth travel teams and adult teams, and adding anon-resident fee for rental of Trapp Farm tubing facility.
Following a brief discussion Daryle Petersen moved, John Rudolph seconded with all members voting in
favor to recommend to the City Council that the fees and changes for 1998 be approved as submitted by staff.
PARK BENCHES
Director Vraa explained that the City Council has discussed the issue of bus benches along transportation
corridors within the City. The Council is looking at the potential of placing non-advertising benches in various azeas
of the City and has asked that the Advisory Parks Commission look at the issue.
Member Johnson asked where the interest for the benches was coming from. Member Vincent asked for
clazification of the Council's request. Director Vraa suggested that the Council may be looking for the
Commission's input on whether they see a need for them, have residents requested this type of use, etc.
Member Rudolph stated that although benches along thoroughfares may not be needed, they may be
appropriate in parks. He did feel that these were two separate issues, however. Member Davis suggested looking at
trails neaz thoroughfazes as a potential location. Member Vincent opined that Pazks and Recreation should not be
looking at providing benches along right-of--ways for transit users.
Following further questions, Members Knutson and Johnson asked staff to get further clarification from the
Council on what exactly the Commission's role and responsibility with this issue should be.
PARKS D1VEL()PMENT. t7PDAT
There were no parks development issues for the Commission to review.
VVATLR RESO ~JPDATE
Water Resources Coordinator Brasch noted that there was good discussion regazding the cooperative
program using city volunteers. The biggest question was whether this program should proceed next year. Although
there is no specific information targeted from the research it was felt that the program should continue in
anticipation of future needs. Brasch commented on what a wonderful job the volunteers have done in collecting the
data.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of November 17, 1997
Page 7
Brasch suggested setting a Natural Resources Sub-committee meeting to discuss a request from Opus to
modify the wetland replacement for the Eagan Promenade.
OTHI~.i BUSINESS AND REP41
HOLZ FARM ANNUAL REPORT
Superintendent Peterson presented the Holz Farm annual report for Recreation Supervisor Oyanagi. Items
highlighted in the report included the successful benefit dinner at Jensens Supper Club, the Holz Farm spring
festival, day camps, hog roast, Fun on the Farm day camps, book fair, school tours and the physical improvements
made to the farm by the many talented volunteers. Staff expressed their appreciation for all the work done by the
volunteers to make Holz Farm such a success.
Member Markell added his thanks to staff for all the help in getting this project up and running. This has
been a very successful public/private partnership, Markell added.
SHADE TREE DISEASE UPDATE
Due to technical difficulties, this agenda item was not presented. Shade Tree Disease Update will be
deferred to the December Commission meeting.
SUB-COMMITTEE REPORTS
Superintendent Peterson noted that the Recreation Sub-committee met to begin brainstorming about
entrepreneurial revenue generating ideas. Member Rudolph added that they had broken the list into equipment
driven, program driven and facility driven categories and will begin prioritizing those items at their next meeting.
COMMISSION RE-APPOINTMENTS
Director Vraa reminded Commission Member Filipi, Johnson, Petersen, Rudolph and Zwiefel that their
terms expire in January and if they wish to re-apply they can do so by submitting an application to Administration.
ROUND TAKE
Member Johnson asked if the parking lot at Lexington Diffley was completed by November 1 as the
contract stipulated. Parks Planner Lilly responded that the majority of the work was completed but that the fmal lift
of asphalt will be completed in spring, 1998.
Member Davis asked if the City had a home page. Director Vraa responded that staff is working on
completing it.
4ll,1QUI~IME
With no further business to conduct, Michael Vincent moved, Steven Knutson seconded with all members
voting in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m.
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