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02/15/2000 - City Council Special 00053 MINUTES OF A SPECIAL MEETING OF THE EAGAN CITY COUNCIL EAGAN, MINNESOTA February 15, 2000 A special meeting of the Eagan City Council was held on Tuesday, February 15, 2000, at 5:00 p.m. at the Eagan Municipal Center. Present were Mayor Awada and Councilmembers Blomquist, Carlson and Masin. Councilrnember Bakken was absent on military leave. Also present were City Administrator Hedges, City Attorney Sheldon, Director of Finance VanOverbeke, Captain Swanson, Communications Coordinator Foote, and Assistant City Administrator Duffy. AGENDA Councilmember Masin asked to add the items on her memo of February 14, 2000 to the agenda. Councilmember Blomquist moved, Councilmember Masin seconded a motion to approve the agenda as amended. Aye: 4, Nay: 0 VISITORS TO BE HEARD Mayor Awada asked if any member of the audience wished to address the Council. No one did. REVIEW EAGAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING PROCEDURES AND PUBLIC PARTICIPATION GUIDELINES Point number one on Councilmember Masin's memo involved watching a tape of a City of Burnsville City Council meeting and was scheduled later in the meeting. Mayor A wad a read Councilmember Masin's point number two from her memo, as follows, "If the Council is going to use Robert's Rules of Order, all Councilmembers should have copies of specific book, documents, and references that are being used so we can all be on the same page. The resources should also be made available to the public." Councilrnember Masin suggested that everyone have the same edition of Robert's Rules of Order as well as the other references. City Attorney Sheldon explained that Robert's Rules of Order had been around since the 1860s and that he did not think there was much difference between the editions. City Administrator Hedges stated that the City Code established the use of Robert's Rules and that, about fourteen months ago, the Council adopted the ninth edition. He stated that he had also given copies of Chapter Six( Elected officials and council structure and role) of the League of Minnesota Cities' "Handbook for Minnesota Cities" to all members of the City Council. City Administrator Hedges said that the City had purchased three copies of Robert's Rules of Order and also a "Cliff Notes" version. He offered to get more copies for the Council. He stated that the City uses the League Handbook as a reference because the City of Eagan is a statutory city established by the Legislature. Councilrnember Masin asked if these resources were available to the public. City Administrator Hedges said they certainly could be made available. Councilmember Masin requested that both be made available and suggested having copies in the lobby. City Administrator Hedges said there was no problem doing that and that the City could also have copies available in the Council Chambers. 00054 Special City Council Meeting Minutes February 15, 2000 Page 2 Councilmember Masin asked City Attorney Sheldon what he used as references. City Attorney Sheldon replied that he used a variety of resources. Councilrnember Masin stated that anything being used as a reference should be available. Councilmember Carlson said that she would like a copy of Councilmember Blomquist's Robert's Rules of Order flip cards. Councilmember Blomquist stated she would see if she could make some. City Administrator Hedges asked if Councilmembers would like a copy of the larger or smaller book. Councilmember Blomquist said she would like a copy of the smaller book. Mayor Awada read Councilmember Masin's point number three from her memo, as follows, "Discussion point- The Council should see copies of the Council Agendas prior to public distribution. The Council should know what is on the Agenda before having to field questions on the Agenda. Secondly, the Councilmembers would have an opportunity to make corrections and additions in a more timely manner." Councilrnember Masin stated that it seemed members in the community actually got to see City agendas before she did. She said she would like the City Council to at least see the agenda before the agenda was finalized and have a chance to make some comments and know what was on it before they received any questions about it. Councilmember Carlson asked who was seeing it before the Council. City Administrator Hedges explained that, on the Tuesday preceding a regular City Council meeting, a staff agenda review meeting is held. He explained that some items for the agenda are already known because they have been scheduled at previous City Council meetings. Other items are forwarded from the various departments to the Administrative Secretary who prepares the first draft of the agenda. He explained that, at the agenda review meeting, items are discussed in order with each staff member giving the background on items from their departments. Sometimes staff finds items that are not yet ready to be on the agenda and removes them. Also, some new items are added at this time. After the review, the Administrative Secretary prepares the final agenda and faxes it to the newspapers on Wednesday. Therefore, he stated, reporters could have access to the agendas before the Council received their packets on Friday. Also, the agenda is posted on the City's web page. He stated that the City Council did see the agenda support information first. Councilmember Masin asked if staff could fax the agenda to the Mayor and Council on Tuesday before it was faxed to the newspapers. Mayor Awada asked Councilmember Masin if she wanted to see the agenda before it was public in order to change the agenda or just wanted a copy of the final agenda. Councilmember Masin replied that it worked both ways. She said, first, it was the Council's agenda and that Councilmembers should see the agenda first. She said, secondly, in case they want something added or catch something or have questions, there would be time to change it before it was published. Mayor Awada stated that she would love to have the agenda early but not in order to change it. She said the Mayor or any two Councilmembers could presently add anything they wanted to the agenda before it was published. Councilmember Blomquist stated that the agenda is sometimes changed after the agenda is published. Mayor Awada stated this was done before the Administrative Agenda carne out. Councilmember Blomquist said that sometimes items have been added at the actual meetings. City Administrator Hedges said that sometimes an item comes up that staff knows is non- controversial and they might add it, but that this is rare and staff needs to use good judgment. Mayor Awada stated that she did not want the Councilmembers editing staff's agenda. Councilmember Masin stated that it is the Council's agenda and that the Council should be in control of the agenda and see it before anyone else. Mayor Awada said she believed the Council should see the agenda in advance but that she was concerned about the City Council editing the 00055 Special City Council Meeting Minutes February 15, 2000 Page 3 agenda. Councilmember Carlson stated that she did not see how the Council could because most of the items are public procedure. She suggested that the Council may have to agree not to edit the agenda, but there may be a time when it was necessary, but that would be rare. City Administrator Hedges said that if a Councilmember had an item that they thought should go on the agenda, they could call the Monday prior to the agenda review meeting on Tuesday. He stated that staff would be happy to fax the agenda to the Council on Wednesday. Councilmember Masin said that the Council already had a procedure where two members could add an item to the agenda, so they were not really changing the rules. She said that sometimes seeing the agenda triggers memories. She said if they saw the agenda before it was published, there would be a chance to add items for public distribution. Councilmember Blomquist said she knew they could all add items and how to do it. She stated she was more concerned about how the agenda was handled once it was put together. She said she had asked Administrative Secretary Karels to pull some old agendas. She stated that the Consent Agenda was not added to the regular agenda until 1980. She added that the agendas had not changed, but that the procedure had changed regarding how meetings were handled under Robert's Rules of Order. She said the Consent Agenda was not part of Robert's Rules but of other rules and that how the Consent Agenda is used was more discretionary. Mayor Awada requested that Councilrnembers stick to the current point and that discussion of the Consent Agenda itself would follow. Councilmember Carlson stated that even if the agenda was sent to the papers on Wednesday, it was not published until Saturday. City Administrator Hedges said that once the agenda was sent to the press, put on the Web page and posted, the Council could receive a call. Therefore, he added, City Councilmember Masin was suggesting that staff fax the agenda to the Council on Wednesday so the Council would know what was on the agenda and that staff could do that. Mayor Awada said it would be great to get it faxed to them but not in order to edit staff's agenda. Councilmember Masin said she was not suggesting changing the rules. She said that if Council had the agenda early, they would know what was on it and would be able to change it before publication so it could be more accurate. Mayor Awada stated that the Council was in agreement that the agenda would be faxed to them before it was faxed to the papers. Councilmember Carlson requested that a time line as to where a development was in the legal time limit be added to the packet information. Mayor Awada read Councilmember Masin's fourth point from her memo, as follows: "Discussion point - Official Parliamentarian. The effectiveness of our current process needs to be evaluated." Councilmember Masin said that during the past year, she had asked questions of the current Official Parliamentarian but had not gotten definitive answers. She said what the Eagan Council is doing with the Consent Agenda is not standard practice and that some of the City Councilmembers were not aware of that at the last meeting. She suggested that the Council appoint another parliamentarian or get people to volunteer to help the Council. Mayor Awada asked Councilmember Masin what exactly she meant. Councilmember Masin replied that the City Council had had a number of controversial meetings over the Consent Agenda. She said she remembered one meeting where members argued for twenty minutes over the Consent Agenda; and, at that time, neither the presiding officer of the meeting was aware and it was not brought to the Council's attention that what the Council was doing with the Consent Agenda was not standard practice. She said other people went to other meetings and knew what was standard practice and that for them to corne to Eagan's meetings and see the Council displaying unusual 00056 Special City Council Meeting Minutes February 15, 2000 Page 4 behavior because they were dealing with unusual rules was embarrassing. She said it should not have been done more than once. Mayor A wad a said that the information packet for this meeting regarding the Consent Agenda indicated that cities handle the Consent Agenda in many different ways. Councilmember Masin replied that the City Council had not been aware that they were doing something unusual. She said people who come to Eagan's meetings have certain expectations of Robert's Rules and that Robert's Rules were supposed to make meetings run smoothly. She added that the Eagan Council meetings had not flowed smoothly. Councilmember Blomquist said that, if Councilmember Masin was saying that the Council was not doing things according to Robert's Rules of Order, a Consent Agenda was not part of Robert's Rules. She stated that the Council should decide how they wanted to handle the Consent Agenda and then follow that procedure. Mayor Awada stated that Robert's Rules were applied to a particular agenda format but did not prescribe an agenda. Councilmember Carlson asked what the Official Parliamentarian is doing at each meeting and what he should be doing. City Attorney Sheldon answered that he was designated Official Parliamentarian. He added that there are certain things that the Official Parliamentarian was supposed to do and certain things a presiding officer was supposed to do. He said the presiding officer makes an official decision and then may ask the parliamentarian's opinion on it or the parliamentarian may alert the Council if he believes they are doing something seriously wrong. Mayor Awada asked what state law said the official role of the mayor was. City Attorney Sheldon stated that state law mandates that the mayor presides at Council meetings and that the City Council has the right to regulate its procedures. He added that there are specific requirements for certain procedures such as public hearings, notices, and votes required for various kinds of actions that the City Council takes; however, other than those items, there are not mandated requirements. Mayor Awada said that, according to the League of Minnesota Cities Handbook, the Mayor is the presiding officer and the role of the parliamentarian is to advise the presiding officer. She said that the Mayor can make a call on a procedure. She added that it takes a majority vote to overturn that call. Councilmember Masin said she was looking for meetings to flow more smoothly and that they were not. She stated that the Council needed help to get the meetings on track. She added that the Council needed to get someone at the meetings who could help the Council. Councilmember Carlson told Councilmember Masin that it seemed to her that Councilmember Masin meant that she was looking for meetings to run more smoothly rather than meaning the parliamentarian was not doing his job. City Councilrnember Carlson asked City Councilmember Masin what the parliamentarian could do differently and what she thought the Council should do to solve any stalemate. Councilmember Carlson suggested possibly taking a recess. City Councilmember Masin replied that taking a recess was a good idea, but that the Council needed someone to provide accurate information and that the Council had not had that. Councilmember Carlson asked Councilmember Masin when the Council had received wrong information during a meeting from the parliamentarian. Mayor Awada added or when the Council had received a poor call on Robert's Rules of Order. Councilmember Carlson told Mayor Awada that she though what Councilrnember Masin was saying was that the parliamentarian was not giving the right advice on procedure and that she was asking Councilmember Masin when that had happened. Councilmember Masin said that, in the meetings when the Council was working with the facilitator, they received some critiquing of Council meetings and some suggestions on how to improve. She stated the Council no longer does that and that could be part of the problem. 00057 Special City Council Meeting Minutes February 15, 2000 Page 5 She added that people who carne to the Council meetings were appalled by the Council's conduct. Councilrnember Carlson stated that the role of the parliamentarian was to give advice about procedure. She repeated her question to Councilmember Masin as to when the Council had received bad advice from the parliamentarian. Councilmember Carlson suggested that if something did not seem right, the Council could possibly call a recess. She added that it was not the role of the parliamentarian to make all the dynamics of the meetings work. Mayor Awada stated that Councilmember Carlson was right and that Councilrnember Masin had not answered the question as to when the Council had received wrong advice from the parliamentarian. Councilmember Masin said that maybe it was a lack of advice from the parliamentarian. Mayor A wada stated that conduct and following the rules were two different things. Councilmember Carlson asked Councilmember Masin if she wanted the parliamentarian to interrupt procedures at Council meetings. Councilmember Masin replied in the negative. Councilmember Masin said the reason she had brought this up was that the staff was normally corning from certain perspectives and that she thought that, if the Council brought in a parliamentarian who was not part of the regular City business, the Council might be able to have a little more dialogue about how to improve their meetings. She said she thought that it took a special background to be a parliamentarian and she did not know if one could get all that background being an attorney or a City Administrator. Mayor Awada stated that the role of a parliamentarian was to advise the mayor on parliamentary procedures and that was the only role. She asked Councilmember Masin what the parliamentarian had to do with the conduct of individual members of this Council. Councilrnember Masin said she thought this City Council needed help in getting through their meetings in a more efficient manner. Mayor Awada stated that the problems had nothing to do with the parliamentarian and nothing to do with the rules but with behavior. Councilmember Blomquist commented that she knew on certain occasions Councilmembers had asked for a parliamentary ruling and that she did not know if they had gotten an answer. She said she thought that before the parliamentarian could speak other Councilmembers jumped in and answered. Council member Carlson suggested that if the Council did get to stalemate about procedure, the Mayor could call a recess so the parliamentarian could consult references and answer questions and that the Councilmembers should not speak before the parliamentarian did. Councilmember Masin stated that was one way to solve the problems. Mayor Awada read Councilrnember Masin's point number five from her memo, as follows, "Discussion point- Councilmember Bakken's' Agenda Format.' This should not be included with official documents. My recollection is that the Councilmember put this forward as a aid for workshop discussion. The City Administrator has confirmed that the Council has not given official sanction to this document. I would like to know the reference for item '8.1.'" Mayor Awada asked if the City Administrator would like to answer this question. City Administrator Hedges replied that in December of 1998 and between the two Council meetings in January of 1999, there were workshop meetings held with a facilitator to talk about practices at meetings, going to a more formal process following Robert's Rules of Order, conduct, and other procedures. The Council was informed that procedures would be different than the less formal procedures of the past. City Administrator Hedges said he had a list of items the facilitator had put together. He said that Councilmember Bakken had taken upon himself to write a list of how he saw the meetings proceeding and to provide a handout or guideline for the City Council to use at the beginning of the meetings. City Administrator Hedges stated that 00058 Special City Council Meeting Minutes February 15, 2000 Page 6 Councilmember Masin was correct and this had never been offidally adopted. Mayor Awada stated she thought it was created as an aid to help the City Council understand Robert's Rules of Order and how they applied to this Council's particular agenda format. Mayor Awada said the 8.1 is listed under the Consent Agenda and says, "If items are pulled [from the Consent Agenda], it must be by motion at the time of the regular agenda adoption, subject to regular motion practice." Mayor Awada asked how this concerned Councilmember Masin. Councilmember Masin said she was concerned about item 8.1 in the handout because it was a stumbling block and has no apparent reference. Mayor Awada asked City Attorney Sheldon if, according to Robert's Rules, once the agenda is approved, everything that is done in the meeting had to be accomplished through a motion. City Attorney Sheldon replied that that was correct. Mayor Awada stated that 8.1 was correct under Robert's Rules of Order. Councilmember Carlson said that the way it was explained to her was Robert's Rules and what the Council should be doing. She said that, even though the Council had not acted officially, they had followed this practice. She added that Consent was not in Robert's Rules of Order. Mayor Awada asked if somebody could explain that the Consent Agenda format, the Administrative Agenda format and minutes had nothing to do with Robert's Rules. Councilmember Masin requested that a tape she had brought to the meeting showing how the City of Burnsville handled the Consent Agenda be played. She stated that it showed the typical way councils handled the Consent Agenda. Councilmembers agreed. A segment of the tape concerning the Consent Agenda was played. After the tape was stopped, Councilmember Carlson asked if the City of Eagan followed the City of Burnsville's format. Mayor Awada replied in the negative and added that Eagan used to allow individual no votes on items. She added that Burnsville does not allow discussion on an item on the Consent Agenda unless it had been pulled and that Eagan does allow discussion. She also stated that if, a Burnsville City Councilmember wished to pull an item off the Consent Agenda, they had to notify staff in advance so staff could notify the applicant. She emphasized that a Councilrnember had to pull the item in advance and with a reason. Councilmember Blomquist stated that this was originally the way Eagan had handled the Consent Agenda. She said at first Councilmembers had been pretty good about calling in and alerting staff if they intended to pull an item. She stated that she remembered when City Administrator Hedges first suggested using the Consent Agenda, she brought it to the Council and the Council agreed to use it and it worked well for many years; however, through the years the procedure had gotten lax and Councilmembers just pulled items. Cound1member Blomquist said she liked the way the City of Burnsville handled the Consent Agenda and she would consider using that process. Councilmember Carlson stated she also liked the procedure at the City of Burnsville. However, she stated, she wanted to wait before the procedure was changed until Councilmember Bakken returned from duty so that it could be a full Council dedsion. Councilrnember Masin disagreed and said the Council should move ahead on procedure. Councilmember Carlson said that there would only be two meetings before Councilmember Bakken returned, and she would be willing to consider a new procedure at that time. Mayor Awada said she thought that they should wait for Councilmember Bakken. She added she did not think the problems were procedure, that they were based on abuse, and that the problems had started the preceding August when Councilmembers were pulling two-thirds of the items off the Consent Agenda to try to make statements. Councilmember Masin said that all of the Councilmembers were elected as individuals. She said that if a Councilmember feels an 00059 Special City Council Meeting Minutes February 15, 2000 Page 7 item is controversial, then it is to that Councilmember. She stated that Councilmembers should be allowed to pull items off the Consent Agenda and that it should not become a controversy and interrupt the flow of the meetings. Mayor Awada asked if Councilrnember Masin understood that it was a decision for the voting majority of the City Council whether or not an item was pulled. Councilrnember Blomquist moved, Councilmember Masin seconded a motion to reschedule this workshop item on procedures and particularly the Consent Agenda to the next workshop where all City Councilrnembers would be present and seriously consider following the City of Burnsville's procedure for the Consent Agenda. Aye: 4, Nay: 0 City Administrator Hedges said he would bring a proposed date to the next meeting. Margaret Schreiner asked from the audience if the City Council would be willing to look at how members of the public could be part of the discussions of Consent Agenda items and also a procedure for the public to remove items from the Consent Agenda. She also said it was difficult understanding the use of two different terms and asked if the Council had" adopted" or "acknowledged" Robert's Rules. City Attorney Sheldon said adopted. Ms. Schreiner asked how to find this. City Attorney replied this was in the Code Book. OTHER BUSINESS There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 6:15 HND FEBRUARY 15, 2000 Date