02/15/2000 - City Council Special
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MINUTES OF A
SPECIAL MEETING OF THE EAGAN CITY COUNCIL
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
February 15, 2000
A special meeting of the Eagan City Council was held on Tuesday, February 15, 2000, at
5:00 p.m. at the Eagan Municipal Center. Present were Mayor Awada and Councilmembers
Blomquist, Carlson and Masin. Councilrnember Bakken was absent on military leave. Also
present were City Administrator Hedges, City Attorney Sheldon, Director of Finance
VanOverbeke, Captain Swanson, Communications Coordinator Foote, and Assistant City
Administrator Duffy.
AGENDA
Councilmember Masin asked to add the items on her memo of February 14, 2000 to the
agenda. Councilmember Blomquist moved, Councilmember Masin seconded a motion to
approve the agenda as amended. Aye: 4, Nay: 0
VISITORS TO BE HEARD
Mayor Awada asked if any member of the audience wished to address the Council. No
one did.
REVIEW EAGAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING PROCEDURES AND PUBLIC
PARTICIPATION GUIDELINES
Point number one on Councilmember Masin's memo involved watching a tape of a City
of Burnsville City Council meeting and was scheduled later in the meeting.
Mayor A wad a read Councilmember Masin's point number two from her memo, as
follows, "If the Council is going to use Robert's Rules of Order, all Councilmembers should have
copies of specific book, documents, and references that are being used so we can all be on the
same page. The resources should also be made available to the public." Councilrnember Masin
suggested that everyone have the same edition of Robert's Rules of Order as well as the other
references. City Attorney Sheldon explained that Robert's Rules of Order had been around since
the 1860s and that he did not think there was much difference between the editions. City
Administrator Hedges stated that the City Code established the use of Robert's Rules and that,
about fourteen months ago, the Council adopted the ninth edition. He stated that he had also
given copies of Chapter Six( Elected officials and council structure and role) of the League of
Minnesota Cities' "Handbook for Minnesota Cities" to all members of the City Council. City
Administrator Hedges said that the City had purchased three copies of Robert's Rules of Order
and also a "Cliff Notes" version. He offered to get more copies for the Council. He stated that
the City uses the League Handbook as a reference because the City of Eagan is a statutory city
established by the Legislature.
Councilrnember Masin asked if these resources were available to the public. City
Administrator Hedges said they certainly could be made available. Councilmember Masin
requested that both be made available and suggested having copies in the lobby. City
Administrator Hedges said there was no problem doing that and that the City could also have
copies available in the Council Chambers.
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Councilmember Masin asked City Attorney Sheldon what he used as references. City
Attorney Sheldon replied that he used a variety of resources. Councilrnember Masin stated that
anything being used as a reference should be available. Councilmember Carlson said that she
would like a copy of Councilmember Blomquist's Robert's Rules of Order flip cards.
Councilmember Blomquist stated she would see if she could make some. City Administrator
Hedges asked if Councilmembers would like a copy of the larger or smaller book.
Councilmember Blomquist said she would like a copy of the smaller book.
Mayor Awada read Councilmember Masin's point number three from her memo, as
follows, "Discussion point- The Council should see copies of the Council Agendas prior to public
distribution. The Council should know what is on the Agenda before having to field questions
on the Agenda. Secondly, the Councilmembers would have an opportunity to make corrections
and additions in a more timely manner." Councilrnember Masin stated that it seemed members
in the community actually got to see City agendas before she did. She said she would like the
City Council to at least see the agenda before the agenda was finalized and have a chance to
make some comments and know what was on it before they received any questions about it.
Councilmember Carlson asked who was seeing it before the Council. City Administrator Hedges
explained that, on the Tuesday preceding a regular City Council meeting, a staff agenda review
meeting is held. He explained that some items for the agenda are already known because they
have been scheduled at previous City Council meetings. Other items are forwarded from the
various departments to the Administrative Secretary who prepares the first draft of the agenda.
He explained that, at the agenda review meeting, items are discussed in order with each staff
member giving the background on items from their departments. Sometimes staff finds items
that are not yet ready to be on the agenda and removes them. Also, some new items are added at
this time. After the review, the Administrative Secretary prepares the final agenda and faxes it to
the newspapers on Wednesday. Therefore, he stated, reporters could have access to the agendas
before the Council received their packets on Friday. Also, the agenda is posted on the City's web
page. He stated that the City Council did see the agenda support information first.
Councilmember Masin asked if staff could fax the agenda to the Mayor and Council on
Tuesday before it was faxed to the newspapers. Mayor Awada asked Councilmember Masin if
she wanted to see the agenda before it was public in order to change the agenda or just wanted a
copy of the final agenda. Councilmember Masin replied that it worked both ways. She said, first,
it was the Council's agenda and that Councilmembers should see the agenda first. She said,
secondly, in case they want something added or catch something or have questions, there would
be time to change it before it was published. Mayor Awada stated that she would love to have
the agenda early but not in order to change it. She said the Mayor or any two Councilmembers
could presently add anything they wanted to the agenda before it was published.
Councilmember Blomquist stated that the agenda is sometimes changed after the agenda is
published. Mayor Awada stated this was done before the Administrative Agenda carne out.
Councilmember Blomquist said that sometimes items have been added at the actual meetings.
City Administrator Hedges said that sometimes an item comes up that staff knows is non-
controversial and they might add it, but that this is rare and staff needs to use good judgment.
Mayor Awada stated that she did not want the Councilmembers editing staff's agenda.
Councilmember Masin stated that it is the Council's agenda and that the Council should be in
control of the agenda and see it before anyone else. Mayor Awada said she believed the Council
should see the agenda in advance but that she was concerned about the City Council editing the
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agenda. Councilmember Carlson stated that she did not see how the Council could because most
of the items are public procedure. She suggested that the Council may have to agree not to edit
the agenda, but there may be a time when it was necessary, but that would be rare. City
Administrator Hedges said that if a Councilmember had an item that they thought should go on
the agenda, they could call the Monday prior to the agenda review meeting on Tuesday. He
stated that staff would be happy to fax the agenda to the Council on Wednesday.
Councilmember Masin said that the Council already had a procedure where two
members could add an item to the agenda, so they were not really changing the rules. She said
that sometimes seeing the agenda triggers memories. She said if they saw the agenda before it
was published, there would be a chance to add items for public distribution. Councilmember
Blomquist said she knew they could all add items and how to do it. She stated she was more
concerned about how the agenda was handled once it was put together. She said she had asked
Administrative Secretary Karels to pull some old agendas. She stated that the Consent Agenda
was not added to the regular agenda until 1980. She added that the agendas had not changed,
but that the procedure had changed regarding how meetings were handled under Robert's Rules
of Order. She said the Consent Agenda was not part of Robert's Rules but of other rules and that
how the Consent Agenda is used was more discretionary.
Mayor Awada requested that Councilrnembers stick to the current point and that
discussion of the Consent Agenda itself would follow. Councilmember Carlson stated that even
if the agenda was sent to the papers on Wednesday, it was not published until Saturday. City
Administrator Hedges said that once the agenda was sent to the press, put on the Web page and
posted, the Council could receive a call. Therefore, he added, City Councilmember Masin was
suggesting that staff fax the agenda to the Council on Wednesday so the Council would know
what was on the agenda and that staff could do that. Mayor Awada said it would be great to get
it faxed to them but not in order to edit staff's agenda. Councilmember Masin said she was not
suggesting changing the rules. She said that if Council had the agenda early, they would know
what was on it and would be able to change it before publication so it could be more accurate.
Mayor Awada stated that the Council was in agreement that the agenda would be faxed to them
before it was faxed to the papers. Councilmember Carlson requested that a time line as to where
a development was in the legal time limit be added to the packet information.
Mayor Awada read Councilmember Masin's fourth point from her memo, as follows:
"Discussion point - Official Parliamentarian. The effectiveness of our current process needs to be
evaluated." Councilmember Masin said that during the past year, she had asked questions of the
current Official Parliamentarian but had not gotten definitive answers. She said what the Eagan
Council is doing with the Consent Agenda is not standard practice and that some of the City
Councilmembers were not aware of that at the last meeting. She suggested that the Council
appoint another parliamentarian or get people to volunteer to help the Council. Mayor Awada
asked Councilmember Masin what exactly she meant. Councilmember Masin replied that the
City Council had had a number of controversial meetings over the Consent Agenda. She said she
remembered one meeting where members argued for twenty minutes over the Consent Agenda;
and, at that time, neither the presiding officer of the meeting was aware and it was not brought to
the Council's attention that what the Council was doing with the Consent Agenda was not
standard practice. She said other people went to other meetings and knew what was standard
practice and that for them to corne to Eagan's meetings and see the Council displaying unusual
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behavior because they were dealing with unusual rules was embarrassing. She said it should not
have been done more than once.
Mayor A wad a said that the information packet for this meeting regarding the Consent
Agenda indicated that cities handle the Consent Agenda in many different ways.
Councilmember Masin replied that the City Council had not been aware that they were doing
something unusual. She said people who come to Eagan's meetings have certain expectations of
Robert's Rules and that Robert's Rules were supposed to make meetings run smoothly. She
added that the Eagan Council meetings had not flowed smoothly. Councilmember Blomquist
said that, if Councilmember Masin was saying that the Council was not doing things according to
Robert's Rules of Order, a Consent Agenda was not part of Robert's Rules. She stated that the
Council should decide how they wanted to handle the Consent Agenda and then follow that
procedure. Mayor Awada stated that Robert's Rules were applied to a particular agenda format
but did not prescribe an agenda. Councilmember Carlson asked what the Official
Parliamentarian is doing at each meeting and what he should be doing. City Attorney Sheldon
answered that he was designated Official Parliamentarian. He added that there are certain things
that the Official Parliamentarian was supposed to do and certain things a presiding officer was
supposed to do. He said the presiding officer makes an official decision and then may ask the
parliamentarian's opinion on it or the parliamentarian may alert the Council if he believes they
are doing something seriously wrong. Mayor Awada asked what state law said the official role
of the mayor was. City Attorney Sheldon stated that state law mandates that the mayor presides
at Council meetings and that the City Council has the right to regulate its procedures. He added
that there are specific requirements for certain procedures such as public hearings, notices, and
votes required for various kinds of actions that the City Council takes; however, other than those
items, there are not mandated requirements. Mayor Awada said that, according to the League of
Minnesota Cities Handbook, the Mayor is the presiding officer and the role of the
parliamentarian is to advise the presiding officer. She said that the Mayor can make a call on a
procedure. She added that it takes a majority vote to overturn that call.
Councilmember Masin said she was looking for meetings to flow more smoothly and
that they were not. She stated that the Council needed help to get the meetings on track. She
added that the Council needed to get someone at the meetings who could help the Council.
Councilmember Carlson told Councilmember Masin that it seemed to her that Councilmember
Masin meant that she was looking for meetings to run more smoothly rather than meaning the
parliamentarian was not doing his job. City Councilrnember Carlson asked City Councilmember
Masin what the parliamentarian could do differently and what she thought the Council should
do to solve any stalemate. Councilmember Carlson suggested possibly taking a recess. City
Councilmember Masin replied that taking a recess was a good idea, but that the Council needed
someone to provide accurate information and that the Council had not had that. Councilmember
Carlson asked Councilmember Masin when the Council had received wrong information during
a meeting from the parliamentarian. Mayor Awada added or when the Council had received a
poor call on Robert's Rules of Order. Councilmember Carlson told Mayor Awada that she
though what Councilrnember Masin was saying was that the parliamentarian was not giving the
right advice on procedure and that she was asking Councilmember Masin when that had
happened. Councilmember Masin said that, in the meetings when the Council was working with
the facilitator, they received some critiquing of Council meetings and some suggestions on how
to improve. She stated the Council no longer does that and that could be part of the problem.
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She added that people who carne to the Council meetings were appalled by the Council's
conduct. Councilrnember Carlson stated that the role of the parliamentarian was to give advice
about procedure. She repeated her question to Councilmember Masin as to when the Council
had received bad advice from the parliamentarian. Councilmember Carlson suggested that if
something did not seem right, the Council could possibly call a recess. She added that it was not
the role of the parliamentarian to make all the dynamics of the meetings work. Mayor Awada
stated that Councilmember Carlson was right and that Councilrnember Masin had not answered
the question as to when the Council had received wrong advice from the parliamentarian.
Councilmember Masin said that maybe it was a lack of advice from the parliamentarian. Mayor
A wada stated that conduct and following the rules were two different things. Councilmember
Carlson asked Councilmember Masin if she wanted the parliamentarian to interrupt procedures
at Council meetings. Councilmember Masin replied in the negative.
Councilmember Masin said the reason she had brought this up was that the staff was
normally corning from certain perspectives and that she thought that, if the Council brought in a
parliamentarian who was not part of the regular City business, the Council might be able to have
a little more dialogue about how to improve their meetings. She said she thought that it took a
special background to be a parliamentarian and she did not know if one could get all that
background being an attorney or a City Administrator. Mayor Awada stated that the role of a
parliamentarian was to advise the mayor on parliamentary procedures and that was the only
role. She asked Councilmember Masin what the parliamentarian had to do with the conduct of
individual members of this Council. Councilrnember Masin said she thought this City Council
needed help in getting through their meetings in a more efficient manner. Mayor Awada stated
that the problems had nothing to do with the parliamentarian and nothing to do with the rules
but with behavior. Councilmember Blomquist commented that she knew on certain occasions
Councilmembers had asked for a parliamentary ruling and that she did not know if they had
gotten an answer. She said she thought that before the parliamentarian could speak other
Councilmembers jumped in and answered. Council member Carlson suggested that if the
Council did get to stalemate about procedure, the Mayor could call a recess so the
parliamentarian could consult references and answer questions and that the Councilmembers
should not speak before the parliamentarian did. Councilmember Masin stated that was one way
to solve the problems.
Mayor Awada read Councilrnember Masin's point number five from her memo, as
follows, "Discussion point- Councilmember Bakken's' Agenda Format.' This should not be
included with official documents. My recollection is that the Councilmember put this forward as
a aid for workshop discussion. The City Administrator has confirmed that the Council has not
given official sanction to this document. I would like to know the reference for item '8.1.'"
Mayor Awada asked if the City Administrator would like to answer this question. City
Administrator Hedges replied that in December of 1998 and between the two Council meetings
in January of 1999, there were workshop meetings held with a facilitator to talk about practices
at meetings, going to a more formal process following Robert's Rules of Order, conduct, and
other procedures. The Council was informed that procedures would be different than the less
formal procedures of the past. City Administrator Hedges said he had a list of items the
facilitator had put together. He said that Councilmember Bakken had taken upon himself to
write a list of how he saw the meetings proceeding and to provide a handout or guideline for the
City Council to use at the beginning of the meetings. City Administrator Hedges stated that
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Councilmember Masin was correct and this had never been offidally adopted. Mayor Awada
stated she thought it was created as an aid to help the City Council understand Robert's Rules of
Order and how they applied to this Council's particular agenda format.
Mayor Awada said the 8.1 is listed under the Consent Agenda and says, "If items are
pulled [from the Consent Agenda], it must be by motion at the time of the regular agenda
adoption, subject to regular motion practice." Mayor Awada asked how this concerned
Councilmember Masin. Councilmember Masin said she was concerned about item 8.1 in the
handout because it was a stumbling block and has no apparent reference. Mayor Awada asked
City Attorney Sheldon if, according to Robert's Rules, once the agenda is approved, everything
that is done in the meeting had to be accomplished through a motion. City Attorney Sheldon
replied that that was correct. Mayor Awada stated that 8.1 was correct under Robert's Rules of
Order. Councilmember Carlson said that the way it was explained to her was Robert's Rules and
what the Council should be doing. She said that, even though the Council had not acted
officially, they had followed this practice. She added that Consent was not in Robert's Rules of
Order. Mayor Awada asked if somebody could explain that the Consent Agenda format, the
Administrative Agenda format and minutes had nothing to do with Robert's Rules.
Councilmember Masin requested that a tape she had brought to the meeting showing
how the City of Burnsville handled the Consent Agenda be played. She stated that it showed the
typical way councils handled the Consent Agenda. Councilmembers agreed. A segment of the
tape concerning the Consent Agenda was played. After the tape was stopped, Councilmember
Carlson asked if the City of Eagan followed the City of Burnsville's format. Mayor Awada
replied in the negative and added that Eagan used to allow individual no votes on items. She
added that Burnsville does not allow discussion on an item on the Consent Agenda unless it had
been pulled and that Eagan does allow discussion. She also stated that if, a Burnsville City
Councilmember wished to pull an item off the Consent Agenda, they had to notify staff in
advance so staff could notify the applicant. She emphasized that a Councilrnember had to pull
the item in advance and with a reason. Councilmember Blomquist stated that this was originally
the way Eagan had handled the Consent Agenda. She said at first Councilmembers had been
pretty good about calling in and alerting staff if they intended to pull an item. She stated that she
remembered when City Administrator Hedges first suggested using the Consent Agenda, she
brought it to the Council and the Council agreed to use it and it worked well for many years;
however, through the years the procedure had gotten lax and Councilmembers just pulled items.
Cound1member Blomquist said she liked the way the City of Burnsville handled the Consent
Agenda and she would consider using that process. Councilmember Carlson stated she also
liked the procedure at the City of Burnsville. However, she stated, she wanted to wait before the
procedure was changed until Councilmember Bakken returned from duty so that it could be a
full Council dedsion. Councilrnember Masin disagreed and said the Council should move ahead
on procedure. Councilmember Carlson said that there would only be two meetings before
Councilmember Bakken returned, and she would be willing to consider a new procedure at that
time. Mayor Awada said she thought that they should wait for Councilmember Bakken. She
added she did not think the problems were procedure, that they were based on abuse, and that
the problems had started the preceding August when Councilmembers were pulling two-thirds
of the items off the Consent Agenda to try to make statements. Councilmember Masin said that
all of the Councilmembers were elected as individuals. She said that if a Councilmember feels an
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item is controversial, then it is to that Councilmember. She stated that Councilmembers should
be allowed to pull items off the Consent Agenda and that it should not become a controversy and
interrupt the flow of the meetings. Mayor Awada asked if Councilrnember Masin understood
that it was a decision for the voting majority of the City Council whether or not an item was
pulled.
Councilrnember Blomquist moved, Councilmember Masin seconded a motion to
reschedule this workshop item on procedures and particularly the Consent Agenda to the next
workshop where all City Councilrnembers would be present and seriously consider following the
City of Burnsville's procedure for the Consent Agenda. Aye: 4, Nay: 0 City Administrator
Hedges said he would bring a proposed date to the next meeting.
Margaret Schreiner asked from the audience if the City Council would be willing to look
at how members of the public could be part of the discussions of Consent Agenda items and also
a procedure for the public to remove items from the Consent Agenda. She also said it was
difficult understanding the use of two different terms and asked if the Council had" adopted" or
"acknowledged" Robert's Rules. City Attorney Sheldon said adopted. Ms. Schreiner asked how
to find this. City Attorney replied this was in the Code Book.
OTHER BUSINESS
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 6:15
HND
FEBRUARY 15, 2000
Date