10/20/2003 - Advisory Parks & Recreation Commission
Approved November 17.2003
ADVISORY PARKS COMMISSION
EAGAN, MINNESOTA
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER 20, 2003
A regular meeting of the Advisory Parks Commission was called to order at 7:00 p.m. on October 20,2003
with the following Commission Members present: Joseph Bari, Margo Danner, Terry Davis, Elizabeth Perry,
Dorothy Peterson, and Ken West. Members Belfiori, Filipi, Pletcher and Williams were not present. Staff present
included Ken Vraa, Director of Parks and Recreation; Jeff Asfahl, Superintendent of Recreation; Paul Olson, Parks
Superintendent; Eric Macbeth, Water Resources Coordinator; Sonya Rippe, Sports Program Supervisor; Mark
Vaughan, Civic Arena Manager; Beth Wielde, Research and Special Projects; CJ Lilly, Parks Planner; Sheila
Cartney, Planner and Cherryl Mesko, Recording Secretary.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Joseph Bari moved, Dorothy Peterson seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the agenda as
presented.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 15, 2003
Terry Davis moved, Margo Danner seconded with all members voting in favor to accept the minutes of the
September 15,2003 meeting as presented.
VISITORS TO BE HEARD
There were no visitors who wished to address the Commission under this agenda item.
SUPERINTENDENT'S UPDATE AND DEPARTMENT HAPPENINGS
Superintendents Olson and Asfahl provided updates and a brief overview of issues and activities from the
Parks and Recreation divisions.
RECREATION PROGRAM UPDATE - SONYA RIPPE
In providing an update of adult athletic programs, Sports Program Supervisor Rippe introduced Debbie
Tate and Rich Thiesen, both of whom are longtime participants and managers in Eagan's adult sports leagues.
Debbie and Rich shared their positive experiences in Eagan's leagues and thanked Supervisor Rippe for her positive
leadership. They both shared feedback they've received for the need to add lighting at Lexington Diffley Athletic
Fields. Member Peterson asked if their teams used the website to find information. Both responded that they did.
Supervisor Rippe continued her in-depth presentation covering the fall programs, the upcoming winter
registrations and plans for the 2004 season. Member Peterson asked if the League Leadership committee is still
operating. Supervisor Rippe stated that the interest has been decreasing in the recent past. Member Peterson opined
that given the interest being shared for lighting Lexington Diffley Athletic Fields, perhaps the League Leadership
committee could look into a joint venture to fund the improvement. Supervisor Rippe responded that she could
certainly look at the option of re-connecting with the League Leadership committee.
CIVIC ARENA PROGRAM UPDATE - MARK VAUGHAN
Civic Arena Manager Vaughan presented an overview of the 2002/2003 events and activities of the Civic
Arena. Some of the notable firsts at the arena included a wedding in August and a graduation party that has
spawned new ideas for 2004. Manager Vaughan reviewed the dry floor use, ice rental revenues and notable changes
over the past year.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of October 20,2003
Page 2
CONSENT AGENDA
There were no consent agenda items for the Commission to discuss.
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
LEXINGTON RIDGE - MILLERVILLE, INC
Planner Sheila Cartney shared the background of this proposal noting that it had been previously reviewed
and denied by the Advisory Parks Commission and subsequently denied by the Advisory Planning Commission and
City Council. One of the major contributing factors to the denial was that the original proposal showed access to
this development through Lexington Diffley Athletic Fields. This proposal shows the property subdivided into 8
single-family lots with access proposed via Diffley Road by a private road easement.
Forestry Supervisor Hove presented an overview of the tree preservation issues and reviewed the tree
inventory on the site. Hove noted that the applicant had done a good job with tree preservation on the site and that
there would be no required tree mitigation for this proposal. In addition, Supervisor Hove was encouraging the
preservation of two specific specimen trees on the site. One is tree #262, a 38" diameter white oak and the other is
tree #244, a 41" diameter bur oak. It was staffs perception that tree #262 could be preserved with minimal effort by
the developer, however, more effort would be needed to preserve #244 given its proximity to the proposed lot 4.
Supervisor Hove concluded his presentation with a concern for the amount of storm water runoff that will
be directed to the northeast portion of the development site and to the adjacent northwest portion of Lexington
Diffley Athletic Fields. He opined that standing water in the lowest collection area, which is heavily wooded, would
negatively affect the health of existing park trees. Staff is seeking more clarification from the applicant as to the
amount of and duration of storm water runoff into wooded park property.
Water Resource Coordinator Macbeth shared to stormwater runoff from this 5.9 acre single-family
subdivision. The majority of the runoff (4.6 acres) is proposed to drain to the low-lying area referenced by
Supervisor Hove. Coordinator Macbeth expressed concern for the steep slopes and erosion control during grading
and construction of this site and the impact that would have to the stormwater pond. Macbeth added that the
applicant has indicated that there is enough area for the stormwater to drain but staff still has some concerns as to
how much of the ponding area will overflow into park property and impact the existing trees.
Member Perry asked if the overland flow is different not than what will be proposed with the development.
Coordinator Macbeth stated that there is not much of a difference in the direction of the flow. Member Perry asked
if water is currently ponding on park property. Coordinator Macbeth responded that this has not been a good year to
gauge because it has been so dry by typically there is not significant ponding on the park property. Member Davis
opined that the addition of impervious surfaces within this development will certainly impact the stormwater runoff
to the pond. Member Peterson asked if there was an outlet from the pond. Coordinator Macbeth explained that
there was an outlet from the pond and that the water would flow under Diffley Road and on to Patrick Eagan Park.
Member Peterson asked if the outlet could be engineered to minimize the flow into park property. Member Davis
also suggested the option of placing a berm between this development and park property to preclude the flow into
park property.
Ray Miller, representing the development, addressed the Advisory Commission and noted that in previous
proposal access was an issue for the City. He stated that they needed a denial from the City of Eagan in order to go
to Dakota County to obtain permission for access off Diffley Road, which they are in the process of negotiating. He
did note that the County would still prefer access to this development through the park rather than Diffley Road.
To respond to the tree preservation issues, Mr. Miller assured the Commission that tree preservation has
always been a high priority for his developments. He added that he would work closely with Supervisor Hove to try
to save tree #262 but wasn't as optimistic about tree #244 because of the significant grading that will occur at this
location. He again shared his desire to work with staff to try to preserve these specimen trees.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of October 20, 2003
Page 3
To respond to the issues addressed by Coordinator Macbeth, Mr. Miller opined that there will need to be
further study to address those concerns. He added that the low area in the northeast corner is currently holding the
runoff from both the private and park property and that there is currently no wetland vegetation in the ponding area
nor standing water. Mr. Miller stated that the control structure will be raised 1.8 feet but that the roots of the trees
are 1.5 feet above the control structure. He added that construction of a berm is possible to keep ponding on the
property but the construction of a berm will certainly affect the existing vegetation and create tree loss.
In order to minimize the amount of impervious surface Member Bari asked if the length of the road could
be decreased by locating it more westerly on the site. Mr. Miller responded that the gradual grade change shown on
the plan would provide a safer access.
Director Vraa asked for clarification regarding raising the outlet 1.8 feet from 919 to 940.9. He asked if
this was intended for water volume or water quality. Mr. Miller responded that it was for water volume.
Coordinator Macbeth was not clear on the reason for raising the outlet structure. Macbeth added that with the
significant slopes the addition of bituminous to the site will result in increased speed of the flow to the ponding area,
which has some inherent problems.
After further discussion Director Vraa asked the Advisory Commission to identify the problem they were
trying to solve; tree preservation, water volume or water quality. He opined that depending upon the answer to that
question the Commission would need to make some compromises. Member Davis stated that the implications of a
berm could impact more trees, raising the water level could certainly impact the vegetation but felt that he did not
have enough information about the impact of these options to make an informed decision. The need for more
information from the developer about the impact of these options was shared by several other Commission
members.
Dorothy Peterson moved, Joseph Bari seconded with all members voting in favor to ask staff to work with
the applicant as soon as possible on both the tree preservation and water quality issues identified and bring this
development back to the Advisory Commission on November 17 for their review and recommendation.
For clarification, Director Vraa noted that this proposal could proceed to the Advisory Planning
Commission meeting on October 28 for their review and would still be able to maintain the schedule of appearing
before the City Council on November 18, following the recommendations by the Advisory Commission on
November 17.
WOODLAND PLACE - EPIC DEVELOPMENT, LLC
Planner Sheila Cartney reviewed the background of this proposal to create 16 lots and avariance to the lot
width minimum and street width minimum on 6.3 acres located at 630 and 660 Cliff Road in the NW V4 of Section
36. This site currently has a single family home with two detached garages and many outbuildings throughout the
site.
Forestry Supervisor Hove reviewed the tree preservation issues noting that this proposal will result in the
removal of 18 significant trees. The proposed removal is less that the allowable amount therefore there is no
required tree mitigation for this proposal. Member Peterson asked the location of trees to be removed. Supervisor
Hove responded that trees interior to the site will be removed and that perimeter trees will remain.
Water Resources Coordinator Macbeth reviewed the stormwater runoff noting that 3.0 acres of the site will
drain into a proposed storn1water treatment pond in the southeast corner of the parcel. This pond will then drain to
Holz Lake. Coordinator Macbeth concluded with staff recommendations regarding mitigation for this proposal.
Member Peterson asked if there would be a need to trench from the proposed pond to the east through park property.
Coordinator Macbeth was unsure but would look into it.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of October 20,2003
Page 4
Parks Superintendent Olson addressed the parks and trails dedication for this site noting that this
development would be subject to a cash parks dedication. The trails dedication however would tie into the recently
completed Holz Farm Master Plan which suggests the development of a nonvehicular trail access extending from the
Holz property to Dodd Road. The developer has responded to staffs request to include a 12 foot wide trail
easement between lots 9 and 10 as a conditional easement upon which a trail would be developed only if a
combination vehicular/pedestrian access is not developed at the more desirable location to the south of this
development. Should the preferred southerly access come to fruition the trail easement would be vacated, however
no time line has been established.
Coordinator Macbeth responded to Member Peterson's earlier question by clarifying that the storm pipe
was proposed to run through the park property.
Rich Rogers, representing Epic Development addressed the Advisory Commission and commented that this
proposal is attempting to stay away from the southern border of trees and will try to maintain a buffer around the
property. Member Danner commented that this proposal represents twice the number oflots as the previous
Lexington Ridge proposal and expressed some concern about the number of variances that are being requested. Mr.
Rogers responded that unlike the previous proposal this site is relatively flat and the number of lots is similar to like
developments in the community.
Member Peterson reiterated her concern for the storm pipe proposed through park property and asked how
deep it would be. Mr. Rogers, noting that his engineer was not present, was unsure but thought that it might be 5
feet underground. Member Davis asked how deep the holding pond was proposed to be. Again noting that his
engineer was not present, Mr. Rogers opined that it might be 6 feet but would need clarification from the engineer.
Following further discussion and concern that sufficient information was not available to make an informed
decision regarding water quality issues, Dorothy Peterson moved, Elizabeth Perry seconded with all members voting
in favor to make the following recommendations regarding this proposal:
1. The development shall be responsible for a cash parks dedication.
2. The development shall include a twelve foot wide Trail Easement between lots 9 and 10. Said
easement may be used by the City to develop a trail should it be determined that a trail would be a
beneficial means of access to the adjoining park property. The easement may be vacated at the
discretion of the City.
3. The development shall be responsible for a cash trails dedication.
4. Tree Protective measures (i.e. orange colored silt fence or 4 foot polyethylene laminate safety netting)
shall be installed at the Drip Line or at the perimeter of the Critical Root Zone, whichever is greater, of
significant trees/woodlands to be preserved on-site.
5. The applicant shall contact the City Forestry Division and set up a pre-construction site inspection at
least five days prior to the issuance of the grading permit to ensure compliance with the approved Tree
Preservation Plan and placement of the Tree Protection Fencing.
6. Water Quality recommendations shall be deferred to the November 17, 2003 Advisory Parks
Commission meeting pending further review and clarification by staff and the developer.
OLD BUSINESS
DISC GOLF
Director Vraa noted that the Advisory Commission has reviewed the feasibility of providing a disc golf
course in Eagan and had asked if Dakota Hills Middle School might be interested in collaborating with this project
by sharing the land that connects Northview Park and School District property. It was noted that the school appears
to be interested and is currently reviewing a request to contribute some funding to the project as well.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of October 20,2003
Page 5
Researcher Wilde continued that staff is still talking to ISD 196 about the potential collaboration of this
project. It was noted that the proposal being presented represents a 9-hole course, designed as a pilot program with
room to expand in the future if the need arises. A potential layout was also shared with the Advisory Commission,
noting the careful layout to maximize the shared space and minimize the impact to the existing property. The
majority of the course is expected to occupy areas within Northview Park with only a minimal use ofISD 196
property. Wielde also noted that only minimal brush removal would be needed to accommodate this 9-hole course
with a total cost estimated at approximately $3,700. It was also noted that this amenity would not be a revenue
generator, rather an amenity for the community to enjoy.
Commission Members Bari and Peterson suggested that the approval of this proposal be subject to a
financial contribution from ISD 196 as well as providing cooperative use of their property. Member Davis stated
that he would not want to see the financial obligation as an obstacle for providing this amenity. Member Perry
suggested that the school could purchase equipment to use at the disc golf course rather than provide a financial
contribution towards its construction.
Dorothy Peterson moved, Margo Danner seconded a motion to approve the construction of a disc golf
course at Northview Park upon approval by Dakota Hills Middle School subject to a financial contribution of no less
than $1,000 from Dakota Hills Middle School. Those voting Aye included Dorothy Peterson, Margo Danner and
Joseph Bari. Those voting Nay included Elizabeth Perry, Terry Davis and Ken West. The motion did not pass for
lack of a majority vote.
After further discussion regarding the benefit to the community and the relatively inexpensive investment
to provide this amenity, Terry Davis moved and Joseph Bari seconded a motion to approve construction of a disc
golf course at Northview Park upon approval by Dakota Hills Middle School. Those voting Aye included Elizabeth
Perry, Joseph Bari, Terry Davis and Ken West. Those voting Nay included Dorothy Peterson and Margo Danner.
The motion passed.
ALTERNATIVE FUNDING OPTIONS
Director Vraa provided a brief overview of this project and thanked the Advisory Commission for the
diligent work that has been done since June of 2002 when the City Council asked for this review of alternative
revenue streams for the Park Site Fund. Director Vraa brought the Commission's attention to the findings report
that captured the months of study and asked for consensus from the Commission to bring this report to the City
Council. Member Davis added that the Commission has exhausted their research and that all the background
materials and report should move forward for further direction from the City Council.
After further brief discussion, Dorothy Peterson moved, Joseph Bari seconded with all members voting in
favor to forward the following findings to the City Council pertaining to alternative funding streams for City of
Eagan parks:
. Short-term: Discuss the logistics of a referendum to be used for acquisition and development
projects. Also, use the existing park site fund for renewal/replacement, at approximately $245,000 per
annum.
. LonlHerm: Consider raising the levy, within the boundaries set by the state legislature. Consider a
dedicated fund for renewal, development, and purchase of park amenities.
. Continuous: Grants, donorships, and sponsorships will be pursued whenever possible. Grant funds
tend to be project-specific and can not be considered a replacement to a continuous funding stream, but
they are a very welcome supplement.
NEW BUSINESS
There were no New Business items for the Advisory Commission to discuss.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of October 20,2003
Page 6
WATER RESOURCES UPDATE
JP-47 UPDATE
Water Resources Coordinator Macbeth provided the background and update of the public information
meting held on October 1, 2003 regarding the Fish Lake alum treatment program to the immediate neighborhood of
JP-47 and east Fish Lake. Assuming this element of the Water Resources Program continues to proceed, Macbeth
noted that the issues that remain to be completed before next spring include; 1) removal of the sludge; 2) acquisition
of land for the alum settling basing; 3) construction of the alum settling basin; and 4) acquisition of a State operating
permit.
Member Davis commented that there were some suggestions made at the meeting for alternative solutions
and asked if there was a more gradual way of addressing this problem. Coordinator Macbeth responded that he does
not know of any other option at this time but noted that information will continue to be shared with the public and
that the City is open to hearing about other potential options that have not yet been brought forward. Coordinator
Macbeth reiterated that he felt the City was taking the most positive action with the installation of a new basin and
the periodic removal of alum sludge. Member Davis asked if any other new ideas have been brought forward.
Macbeth responded that nothing new has come from the meetings to date.
Given that the acquisition of land to accommodate a new basin has been put on hold at this time some
Commission Members expressed concern that the window for removing the sludge this fall is small and that the City
should at least proceed with that portion of the project. Member Peterson asked how best to get this moving
forward. After further brief discussion, Elizabeth Perry moved, Dorothy Peterson seconded with all members voting
in favor to recommend to the City Council that the alum sludge be removed this winter from Fish Lake.
OTHER BUSINESS AND REPORTS
PATRICK MCCARTHY PROPERTY UPDATE
Director Vraa explained that Patrick McCarthy has donated an easement to Dakota County for the future
preservation of a portion of his property. It was noted that the Trust for Public Land has submitted the proposal on
behalf of Mr. McCarthy and will continue working with him as needed.
It was also noted that the Trust for Public Land is working with Tony Caponi on a grant application for
portions of his property.
SUBCOMMITTEE UPDATES
NAMING RIGHTS
Member Peterson noted that the group has met and reviewed several drafts to bring back to the Advisory
Commission for review. It is anticipated that this issue will be brought back to the Commission within the next few
months.
Regarding Historic Preservation discussion, Member Peterson asked if a meeting could be scheduled
regarding Holz Farm on November 17 or 18.
ROUND TABLE
Member Davis asked if the City had a new website. Director Vraa explained that the City is currently
working on a new site that will be unveiled later this year. The new site will allow updates by individual
departments so that the information is kept current. Member Davis added that it would be helpful if the site provided
a quicker way to find information.
Advisory Parks Commission
Minutes of Regular Meeting of October 20,2003
Page 7
ADJOURNMENT
With no further business to conduct Joseph Bari moved, Margo Danner seconded with all members voting
in favor to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
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Secretary Date